Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

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I find it absolutely fascinating that the idea of poverty and ministry to the poor should solicit such a strong and in some postings, cruel response. These are all 'fighting words." How very far they are from Christ. No wonder this new Pope has taken up this mantel. Clearly a whole bunch of Catholics have forgotten what the Christian message is.

If Christ walked up to you tomorrow morning and told you to give away everything you owned and follow him, would you do it? Could you do it? If not, what does that say?

As to Mother Teresa, I have a personal devotion to her. When you have sat down in the gutter in India or someplace like that and held the head of a filthy, diseased, dying person, then you can criticize her. She went where none of us has gone and most never will go.

I hold out great hope that this new Pope Francis will change our church forever. It is becoming clear to me that it needs to be changed. God sends what is needed.
While I understand people wanting the best for Christ, I remember His words to Peter who thought in the flesh and spoke against letting things come to pass that Christ told them would happen.
Mat 16:22 And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men.
Christ didn’t own the best during His time. He borrowed a ‘colt’, and a ‘tomb.’ I believe He borrowed the upper room. His teachings were about giving, sometimes requesting, or speaking about, selling and leaving everything behind, and giving to the poor after selling. What we do to the least of His, we have done to Him. That’s the best Christ asked of us, and that we can give to Him.

I doubt Pope Francis has it in mind to sell of all the Church’s assets. We can speculate the many ways his words are applicable, and we should wait until he expands on them. I will listen with an open mind, and heart.
 
I live in a Central America country in which the population lives on an average of $130 per month. Being this part of the world the battleground where the Liberation Theology (LT) was promoted and carried out, it is unsettling to hear the words of the Holy Father “a poor Church for the poor” because of the use the leftists movements will make of that phrase for their political gain.

If it means a preferential option for the poor based on Christian charity, I’m 100% for it. But if it means a preferential option for the poor to further the class warfare (poor vs. rich, poor NATION vs. rich NATION), prevalent in the leftist leaders of these nations then I’m not for it as class warfare is not a Christian teaching. Back in the 70’s and 80’s, when the LT was being pushed in these nations, the result was that some of our countries were thrown into wars that left thousands of dead only to make possible the Marxist/communist takeover of governments. Many priests (most of them Jesuits) were behind the LT movement, and as mentioned the emphasis was made on the overthrow of rightists regimes, backed up by the USA in their global confrontation with the USSR, with very little if not a complete lack of the spiritual well being of the poor. The liberating part was of a political regime, not a spiritual liberation from sin. I remember the phrase “Jesus was the first revolutionary” being told around and thousands of Catholics truly believing that Jesus Gospel was being carried out in the fights against dictators and the shedding of the blood of the oppressors.

I’m also worried about how the media will report what the Pope is saying. No one can denied that the left controls most of the mass communication outlets, be it TV, newspaper, magazines and radio. They can distort (and will distort) what the Pope says and again millions of Catholics will be deceived. Catholics like Pelosi and Company will say they side with the Pope and his preferential option for the poor, but instead of giving from her own purse she will take money out of your pockets to fund social programs that will waste most of the funds.

As for the Vatican treasures, the Pope cannot sell them, they are not his. I read somewhere that there are Italian laws that prevent the selling of these treasures by the Vatican.

One final note: in our countries the poor are not just economically poor, they are -unfortunately- poor in their moral values too. Single mothers abound, men with multiple women having kids is also very high among them. Many feel they have a right to steal, “things are for those who need them” they say. Parents send their children to beg for money in street corners while they are semi hiding in the distance. Men spend whatever money they get in vices: smoking, alcohol, drugs. There was an old saying, “poor, but honest”. That is not the norm nowadays.

While on a trip to another country I was asked “Where do the richest poor of the world live?” I was surprised by the question. My host gave me the answer, “here in Puerto Rico. The US Government sends millions of dollars to give away to the poor, they give them an apartment, A/C, a TV, oven, refrigerator, electricity, water, washer, dryer, and they never work. You’ll find a car parked outside and they even use the money to buy drugs”.

I understand that we have to be charitable, so let’s be charitable, but I also believe these truths have to be known. Beware of those who will usurp our Christian charity to promote their political agendas.
 
[CNAU]
Vatican officials, made nervous by the public example of the new pope, have already begun to moderate their lifestyle, taking taxis around Rome rather than using the large fleet of luxury sedans, Italian newspapers have reported, according to The Sydney Morning Herald
 
Good idea in my view, providing that it doesn’t turn out that the cabs end up being more expensive in the long run, which it could if the cars are already paid for. Also, I get concerned about what happens to the drivers, their job, benefits etc.

Regardless, as in any large organization, there are certainly areas that we can spend less money on, which means that more of what the Church receives at collection etc. can be used for the works of spiritual and corporal mercy.
 
Good idea in my view, providing that it doesn’t turn out that the cabs end up being more expensive in the long run, which it could if the cars are already paid for. Also, I get concerned about what happens to the drivers, their job, benefits etc.
I agree, but a fleet of cars is something I think we could all agree the Church could afford to let go of maybe? 😉
 
I agree, but a fleet of cars is something I think we could all agree the Church could afford to let go of maybe? 😉
Perhaps. Again, I think it could be good, but I hope that things get thought through and not just chopped randomly in an effort to appear to be doing the right thing. I don’t know enough about this particular situation to really comment effectively. Were the cars purchased or donated? If they were purchased, are they paid for, or is the Church still making payments? Does it make sense to get rid of all of them, or are there occasions where it makes sense to keep some of them? Should they be sold, auctioned off, or donated to other groups (perhaps even some within the Church so that they have a vehicle to use)?

The community of St. Egidio for example, might be spending part of their budget on cabs or public transit. If the Vatican gave them a car or two, perhaps they could use more of their money for their actual mission, which is food for the poor. In this case, keeping the cars in the Church, might actually be good for the poor. Maybe a local food bank is spending some of their budget which could go to food, on transportation. A car donated from the Church might actually serve to help the poor in that situation as well. Again, things needs to be thought through rather than just getting rid of the cars for the sake of appearances.
 
I live in a Central America country in which the population lives on an average of $130 per month. Being this part of the world the battleground where the Liberation Theology (LT) was promoted and carried out, it is unsettling to hear the words of the Holy Father “a poor Church for the poor” because of the use the leftists movements will make of that phrase for their political gain.

If it means a preferential option for the poor based on Christian charity, I’m 100% for it. But if it means a preferential option for the poor to further the class warfare (poor vs. rich, poor NATION vs. rich NATION), prevalent in the leftist leaders of these nations then I’m not for it as class warfare is not a Christian teaching. Back in the 70’s and 80’s, when the LT was being pushed in these nations, the result was that some of our countries were thrown into wars that left thousands of dead only to make possible the Marxist/communist takeover of governments. Many priests (most of them Jesuits) were behind the LT movement, and as mentioned the emphasis was made on the overthrow of rightists regimes, backed up by the USA in their global confrontation with the USSR, with very little if not a complete lack of the spiritual well being of the poor. The liberating part was of a political regime, not a spiritual liberation from sin. I remember the phrase “Jesus was the first revolutionary” being told around and thousands of Catholics truly believing that Jesus Gospel was being carried out in the fights against dictators and the shedding of the blood of the oppressors.

I’m also worried about how the media will report what the Pope is saying. No one can denied that the left controls most of the mass communication outlets, be it TV, newspaper, magazines and radio. They can distort (and will distort) what the Pope says and again millions of Catholics will be deceived. Catholics like Pelosi and Company will say they side with the Pope and his preferential option for the poor, but instead of giving from her own purse she will take money out of your pockets to fund social programs that will waste most of the funds.

As for the Vatican treasures, the Pope cannot sell them, they are not his. I read somewhere that there are Italian laws that prevent the selling of these treasures by the Vatican.

One final note: in our countries the poor are not just economically poor, they are -unfortunately- poor in their moral values too. Single mothers abound, men with multiple women having kids is also very high among them. Many feel they have a right to steal, “things are for those who need them” they say. Parents send their children to beg for money in street corners while they are semi hiding in the distance. Men spend whatever money they get in vices: smoking, alcohol, drugs. There was an old saying, “poor, but honest”. That is not the norm nowadays.

While on a trip to another country I was asked “Where do the richest poor of the world live?” I was surprised by the question. My host gave me the answer, “here in Puerto Rico. The US Government sends millions of dollars to give away to the poor, they give them an apartment, A/C, a TV, oven, refrigerator, electricity, water, washer, dryer, and they never work. You’ll find a car parked outside and they even use the money to buy drugs”.

I understand that we have to be charitable, so let’s be charitable, but I also believe these truths have to be known.** Beware of those who will usurp our Christian charity to promote their political agendas.**
👍👍👍
 
I agree, but a fleet of cars is something I think we could all agree the Church could afford to let go of maybe? 😉
Playing Devil’s advocate a bit here… but how, exactly, does this help the Church?

So far, on this thread and others, we have a lot of people with cute sounding catch-phrases but nothing about the actual benefit for the Church.

Is a Cardinal taking a cab going to do anything to further the good of the Church? Or is it just a visible act that changes nothing?
 
Playing Devil’s advocate a bit here… but how, exactly, does this help the Church?

So far, on this thread and others, we have a lot of people with cute sounding catch-phrases but nothing about the actual benefit for the Church.

Is a Cardinal taking a cab going to do anything to further the good of the Church? Or is it just a visible act that changes nothing?
Well, a Cardinal taking a cab (and I agree with Jason: if it ends up costing more, then it’s pretty dumb-if for no other reason than the fact that the extra money will mean less money for good programs), would sure be a good witness. Even if I could afford a driver and limo, I wouldn’t purchase/use them.
 
Perhaps. Again, I think it could be good, but I hope that things get thought through and not just chopped randomly in an effort to appear to be doing the right thing. I don’t know enough about this particular situation to really comment effectively. Were the cars purchased or donated? If they were purchased, are they paid for, or is the Church still making payments? Does it make sense to get rid of all of them, or are there occasions where it makes sense to keep some of them? Should they be sold, auctioned off, or donated to other groups (perhaps even some within the Church so that they have a vehicle to use)?

The community of St. Egidio for example, might be spending part of their budget on cabs or public transit. If the Vatican gave them a car or two, perhaps they could use more of their money for their actual mission, which is food for the poor. In this case, keeping the cars in the Church, might actually be good for the poor. Maybe a local food bank is spending some of their budget which could go to food, on transportation. A car donated from the Church might actually serve to help the poor in that situation as well. Again, things needs to be thought through rather than just getting rid of the cars for the sake of appearances.
I thought maybe we could agree on a more simplistic type living for the men of Church. I guess I was wrong. Luxury sedans seems expendable to me. 🤷

I had posted that link to try and show ways the Church could become ‘poorer’, besides the speculations and scrutiny surrounding the Pope’s words. I trust the Holy Father and will receive his explanations with an open heart and mind. I’m sure he has the forethought to think things through.

On a side note, all the debate about the new Holy Father, 5 days into his position, boggles my mind a bit. :confused:
 
Playing Devil’s advocate a bit here… but how, exactly, does this help the Church?

So far, on this thread and others, we have a lot of people with cute sounding catch-phrases but nothing about the actual benefit for the Church.

Is a Cardinal taking a cab going to do anything to further the good of the Church? Or is it just a visible act that changes nothing?
Let’s just wait and give the Pope the benefit of the doubt. I trust the Holy Spirit and the man chosen.
 
There is no reason to be troubled. In the Apostles’ time they redistributed belongings according to everyone’s needs, had poor fishermen for a hierarchy, and most likely had a simple mass that wasn’t in Latin 🙂 there’s no danger in a poorer church if that’s where our new pope leads us.
 
I thought maybe we could agree on a more simplistic type living for the men of Church. I guess I was wrong.
Did I disagree with that in anyway? I simply stated that there is no reason to be rash and make rapid decisions and just get rid of all the cars. If the Community of St. Egidio spends 10% of their monthly budget on transportation to get food, equipment, etc. wouldn’t providing them with a car that the Church already has paid for actually be working to benefit the poor? How is taking a bit of time to figure this out a bad thing? Does all of this really have to be done yesterday, or can we take a bit of time to get it right?
 
There is no reason to be troubled. In the Apostles’ time they redistributed belongings according to everyone’s needs, had poor fishermen for a hierarchy, and most likely had a simple mass that wasn’t in Latin there’s no danger in a poorer church if that’s where our new pope leads us.
Actually having everything in Latin would be cheapest overall, if one factors in the money spent for translations, copyrights, royalties, etc. Not to mention being a lot more unifying than the existing system which splits Catholics into Spanish Masses, Polish Masses, etc.
 
Did I disagree with that in anyway? I simply stated that there is no reason to be rash and make rapid decisions and just get rid of all the cars. If the Community of St. Egidio spends 10% of their monthly budget on transportation to get food, equipment, etc. wouldn’t providing them with a car that the Church already has paid for actually be working to benefit the poor? How is taking a bit of time to figure this out a bad thing? Does all of this really have to be done yesterday, or can we take a bit of time to get it right?
There are a lot more, much higher up, in the hierarchy that these decisions will be left to. Our scrutiny probably won’t have much impact. I thought the cars might have been a ‘beginning’ sign, and was trying to put people at ease. As I said, all the concerns about a Pope 5 days into his position is mind boggling, and a bit disheartening, to me. I’m a follower, I trust the Holy Spirit and the man chosen.
 
Actually having everything in Latin would be cheapest overall, if one factors in the money spent for translations, copyrights, royalties, etc. Not to mention being a lot more unifying than the existing system which splits Catholics into Spanish Masses, Polish Masses, etc.
Good point !
 
Pope To Argentines: Don’t Come To Rome, Give Money To Poor Instead
VATICAN CITY, March 15 (Reuters) - Pope Francis has attempted to dissuade Argentines from making costly trips to Rome for his inaugural Mass next week, suggesting they make a contribution to the poor instead, the Vatican said on Friday.
Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said the pope had called the Vatican ambassador in Buenos Aires on the night he was elected and told him of his wishes.
The new pope had made a similar request to his fellow countrymen when he was made a cardinal in 2001 and Argentina was suffering from the effects of a financial crisis.
He called the ambassador and asked him to tell the bishops that there is no need for them and the faithful to make a long, expensive trip to come to see him but that they could instead offer the money to the poor instead,” Lombardi said.
Francis’ pontificate starts officially on March 19 with a solemn Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica.
The pope has a long-standing reputation for frugality. He used public transportation as a cardinal in Argentina.
The night of his election, Francis rode in a bus with cardinals instead of using the papal limousine that was waiting for him. The next morning he insisted on paying his bill at the Church-owned hotel where he had stayed before the conclave.
 
Playing Devil’s advocate a bit here… but how, exactly, does this help the Church?

So far, on this thread and others, we have a lot of people with cute sounding catch-phrases but nothing about the actual benefit for the Church.

Is a Cardinal taking a cab going to do anything to further the good of the Church? Or is it just a visible act that changes nothing?
Let’s turn the question around - how exactly does the Pope using a sedia gestatoria, taking limos everywhere and living personally with luxuries that he doesn’t need help the Church?

Especially when doing so contrasts so vividly with the Gospel example set by Our Lord, the Apostles and the early Christians?

And more especially in this day and age when material display is so very often associated with ego, selfishness and self-indulgence, and provides such easy fodder for accusations of hypocrisy and such an easy excuse for people not to listen to the Church’s message
 
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