Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

[fix]

Pope Francis is advancing the work begun by his predecessors, not coming up with a new Catholicism.

I think that is the key.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

But, I do not think that is a new emphasis. The new Popes style seems different and that is fine. But, for example, Pope Benedict took heat for his encyclical CARITAS IN VERITATE.

Exactly. We have a charismatic (personality, not movement…I don’t believe) pope after a more reserved one (who suffered a bit in comparison with his predecessor , I think, because he has a quieter personality).

I love all three

 

[TEPO]

I agree, morality cannot be changed, but Pope Francis has made it clear that our morality also includes the need to focus on caring for those in poverty, caring for the environment, and for those with economic and political power to use this power primarily as a means to care for the less fortunate. He is directing the Church (and us as part of the Church) to focus on areas of our morality that have been overlooked in recent years (perhaps because these areas of morality directly impact upon our rather wealthy pockets?)

Woah! I’ve never heard these things before. Did pope Francis get this information through public revelation?

 

[Corki]

I’m not talking about robes, I’m talking about cars etc. I never knew that expensive cars are also signs and symbols and symbols of Christ’s authority on Earth.

Nice cars are a symbol of rank and the Cardinals are the Princes of the Church and have a certain rank. Acknowledging that is nothing to be ashamed of as a Church. Not to mention that expensive cars are generally more reliable and practical than cheap ones.

When at home, most Cardinals (and Bishops for that matter) have drivers. Is that because they are elitist? No. It’s because the driver is usually also the secretary and often the MC and it allows the Cardinal or Bishop to cram more into his schedule than if he was driving himself.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Exactly. We have a charismatic (personality, not movement…I don’t believe) pope after a more reserved one (who suffered a bit in comparison with his predecessor , I think, because he has a quieter personality).

I love all three

 

[Corki]

Exactly. We have a charismatic (personality, not movement…I don’t believe) pope after a more reserved one (who suffered a bit in comparison with his predecessor , I think, because he has a quieter personality).

I love all three

Personally, I haven’t found Pope Francis to be more charismatic than Pope Benedict. His style is more of a friar while Pope Benedict’s was more the beloved professor. The latter was more personally appealing, but that’s just me.

I have read the texts of his homily from this morning as well as his earlier ones. **He has said absolutely nothing new. ** I get his message as we need to keep doing what we are doing and continually try to do it better. I would expect nothing less from any Pope.

 

[Brendan_64]

But, I do not think that is a new emphasis. The new Pope’s style seems different and that is fine. But, for example, Pope Benedict took heat for his encyclical CARITAS IN VERITATE.

That is true, but many times (on here as well) ‘conservative’ Catholics have attempted to downplay the messages og Caritas in Veritate. What Pope Francis is doing is putting the message across in very plain and simple terms, and in a very public fashion. In such a way that those who downplayed Caritas in Veritate cannot now choose to ignore.

Today Pope Francis mentioned ‘Poverty’ more times than anything else in his homily, and with such passion. He has, in effect made this one of the key priorities for our Church. There is simply no excuse now for those with fat wallets to choose to ignore the need to support and care for those in poverty. His message to those with political and economic power was also very clear, they need to use this power primarily to help those in need, and to respect the environment. We therefore have a duty to hold our governments accountable for their actions on this.

 

[fix]

Actually there was a very interesting post in Father Z’s blog today.

Father Z, when young, used to shy away from the ‘smells and bells’ because he thought they were putting too much emphasis on HIM. (A wrong idea which is apparently still being embraced by some priests). . .

Then he realized by studying Scripture that the ‘sacrificial victim’ had ALWAYS been treated with special care. It was always the ‘lamb without blemish’ and always presented with great RITUAL. From the time of Abel’s offering of ‘the very best’, our sacrifices to God have been the same.

The PRIEST at Mass is the sacrificial victim, the "alter Christ’ and this is a reason why He (and also in extension the Sacred Body and Blood requiring to be kept in 'precious vessels) dressed in special vestments and was treated with such care (the Latin Mass is good for showing this).

Likewise, the Pope is Christ’s representative - not simply "Christ the Man’ who worked the earth as a poor man, but Christ the KING who is seated on the throne of heaven and WHO WILL COME IN GLORY.

That is the reason that the Pope wears ‘simple clothing’ when he is ‘at home’ but wears ‘robes’ and a crown and is escorted by men wearing ceremonial clothing and taken in things like the ‘popemobile’. . .because he represents the RISEN Christ, the CROWNED Christ, the KING Christ, who is representing the King in the performance of the King’s duties.

Too many seem to think that Popes or priests should be only "Christ the poor man’ and don’t want them to be Christ OUR VICTIM AND OUR KING (as the hymn goes).

There is no need for making something an ‘either-or’ when it’s a both-and. We don’t have to limit the Pope, or our priests, to ‘one’ representation of Christ. We can let the Pope and our priests be the FULL representatives of the WHOLE Christ. . .as it should be.

Unfortunately we are not deep thinkers about these issues. We think hey Jesus was poor so priests should be poor too. My guess is that is why some or so taken with the new Pope’s style. It is not that he is wrong it is that there are many more layers to the faith that never get looked at.

 

[The_Bucket]

JPII got criticized for “jetting all over the world while Rome burned” and Benedict is now getting criticized for not being personable enough.

I assure you all that once the glow has faded, Francis will be blasted for being a “bigot” when he upholds teachings on homosexuality and a “sexist” for defending unborn life and refusing to ordain women.

I like the style thus far. There’s a time for the ornate and a time for simplicity. I know that Francis understands that far more than I do. The people are distant from the Church because of her teachings but use the “trappings” as an excuse to not come back closer to God. Francis will do all he can to eliminate those excuses. And that applies to all of us here and to me too. I’m somewhat uncomfortable with the social justice side of the Church because I fear poverty. I fear my own poverty and I find the poverty of others to be terrifying.

There’s more to addressing poverty than handing a few bucks over to Catholic Charities. I know that God through His servant Francis is challenging me to overcome this just as He will challenge “liberals” to come back to Him on the Church’s teachings on sexuality and gender.

 

[Brendan_64]

Nice cars are a symbol of rank and the Cardinals are the Princes of the Church and have a certain rank.

So flash cars are a symbol of Christ’s authority on earth are they? I’ve heard it all now.

 

[fix]

That is true, but many times (on here as well) ‘conservative’ Catholics have attempted to downplay the messages og Caritas in Veritate. What Pope Francis is doing is putting the message across in very plain and simple terms, and in a very public fashion. In such a way that those who downplayed Caritas in Veritate cannot now choose to ignore.

Today Pope Francis mentioned ‘Poverty’ more times than anything else in his homily, and with such passion. He has, in effect made this one of the key priorities for our Church. There is simply no excuse now for those with fat wallets to choose to ignore the need to support and care for those in poverty. His message to those with political and economic power was also very clear, they need to use this power primarily to help those in need, and to respect the environment. We therefore have a duty to hold our governments accountable for their actions on this.

Hey I agree.

 

[fix]

JPII got criticized for “jetting all over the world while Rome burned” and Benedict is now getting criticized for not being personable enough.

I assure you all that once the glow has faded, Francis will be blasted for being a “bigot” when he upholds teachings on homosexuality and a “sexist” for defending unborn life and refusing to ordain women.

I like the style thus far. There’s a time for the ornate and a time for simplicity. I know that Francis understands that far more than I do. The people are distant from the Church because of her teachings but use the “trappings” as an excuse to not come back closer to God. Francis will do all he can to eliminate those excuses. And that applies to all of us here and to me too. I’m somewhat uncomfortable with the social justice side of the Church because I fear poverty. I fear my own poverty and I find the poverty of others to be terrifying.

There’s more to addressing poverty than handing a few bucks over to Catholic Charities. I know that God through His servant Francis is challenging me to overcome this just as He will challenge “liberals” to come back to Him on the Church’s teachings on sexuality and gender.

All true.

 

[The_Bucket]

So flash cars are a symbol of Christ’s authority on earth are they? I’ve heard it all now.

Grow up. They are for the sake of convenience. Curia reform is clearly necessary. The Vatican Bank needs to be cleaned up and plenty of people need to lose their jobs.

What’s not necessary is to sell everything the Church owns. St. Francis relied on the charity of others, but how would have his mission been accomplished if there was no one of means to provide him with that charity?

To your other points, which fix quoted, I heartily agree. We can disagree about the government’s role in addressing these issues, but there is no room for disagreement about our role as individual people to help those in poverty.

 

[Corki]

So flash cars are a symbol of Christ’s authority on earth are they? I’ve heard it all now.

I think you meant “flashy” and I have never seen a Cardinal in a flashy car. But no, as I said!!!, nicer cars are a reflection of rank and responsibility, There are other symbols that point to Christ’s authority on Earth. We don’t need to throw out one to have the other.

 

[Brendan_64]

Grow up. They are for the sake of convenience.

And there was me thinking that the previous poster said that expensive cars** were **a symbol of authority. Which is what he did say.

If Pope Francis could use the bus when he was an Archbishop of Buenos Aires then I don’t think it’s too much too expect for other bishops to drive themselves around.

 

[LisaA]

JPII got criticized for “jetting all over the world while Rome burned” and Benedict is now getting criticized for not being personable enough.

I assure you all that once the glow has faded, Francis will be blasted for being a “bigot” when he upholds teachings on homosexuality and a “sexist” for defending unborn life and refusing to ordain women.

I like the style thus far. There’s a time for the ornate and a time for simplicity. I know that Francis understands that far more than I do. The people are distant from the Church because of her teachings but use the “trappings” as an excuse to not come back closer to God. Francis will do all he can to eliminate those excuses. And that applies to all of us here and to me too. I’m somewhat uncomfortable with the social justice side of the Church because I fear poverty. I fear my own poverty and I find the poverty of others to be terrifying.

There’s more to addressing poverty than handing a few bucks over to Catholic Charities. I know that God through His servant Francis is challenging me to overcome this just as He will challenge “liberals” to come back to Him on the Church’s teachings on sexuality and gender.

Bravo! Love your comments, particularly the last section. As Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI noted, love is not merely the handing over of dollars whether via Catholic Charities or through taxation. We are to encounter the poor face to face as he has modelled before and after becoming Pope…much to the chagrin of the Swiss Guard and his security staff!

I am also put off by the term “social justice” which for too many translate into forced redistribution rather than appealing to our better angel, our Christian love and charity, as well as our duty to share the gifts God has given too us.

Also in full agreement that people make excuses why they left the Church or why they would never consider Catholicism. For some as Jack Nicholson said “You can’t handle the Truth!” and because the Church’s teachings particularly regarding sexuality and reproduction would cramp their style. Then we have those who point to the abuse scandal or to a priest that yelled at them during Reconciliation.

I do hope the honeymoon lasts long enough for Pope Francis to have some impact on our increasingly secular world. He’s got a lot of challenges ahead so I know he is receiving prayers from all over the globe.

Lisa

 

[Corki]

And there was me thinking that the previous poster said that expensive cars** were **a symbol of authority. Which is what he did say.

I’m a she and that’s not what I said. I said a symbol of rank.

 

[Brendan_64]

I’m a she

And for that mistake of mine, you have my apologies.

 

[LisaA]

Grow up. They are for the sake of convenience. Curia reform is clearly necessary. The Vatican Bank needs to be cleaned up and plenty of people need to lose their jobs.

What’s not necessary is to sell everything the Church owns. St. Francis relied on the charity of others, but how would have his mission been accomplished if there was no one of means to provide him with that charity?

To your other points, which fix quoted, I heartily agree. We can disagree about the government’s role in addressing these issues, but there is no room for disagreement about our role as individual people to help those in poverty.

More good points. As one poster (Corki?) said, having a driver allows for additional work and communication. I doubt if anyone wants to see Pope Francis or one of the Cardinals texting while driving! Also if you’ve been in Rome’s traffic, safety is enhanced by having a professional driver and a solid car!

I loved your statement that Pope Francis knows when simplicity is in order and when a glorious display of the Church’s beauty and ceremony is in order. I got to watch a few minutes of the Installation Mass this morning and the reverence and sacred environment was enhanced by the beauty of the vessles and the candlesticks and incensor. Handing down of tradition as well as the specific items shows respect for our past and honors God.
However Pope Francis also left the Popemobile to encounter crowds face to face, rode the bus with the rest of the Cardinals and as Cardinal Timothy Dolan noted, when they went into a room for dinner, Pope Francis just took an available seat, not demanding some special seating due to his rank.

I’m loving this new Pope more every day!
Lisa

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I’m not talking about robes, I’m talking about cars etc. I never knew that expensive cars are also signs and symbols and symbols of Christ’s authority on Earth. What next? Rolex watches as symbols of Divine authority?

Exactly who are you complaining about? I’m all for, for example, cardinals who might be using luxury cars and ‘billing’ it to the Vatican having to stop that.

But I don’t think that the ‘normal’ vestments (many of which were bought years ago) and which provided work to those who made them (and many which were even donated free of charge), despite their ‘appearance’, indicate a love of luxury.

And while Pope Francis might have been able to ride a jeep around Rome, he’s PROBABLY not going to be able to do that when he goes on a state visit. First, the ‘popemobiles’ are ALREADY THERE. They serve a function of protection. After all, if the Pope steps out and gets gunned down because he decided he didn’t want the bullet proof car, then there’s all the expense of the cardinals having to fly out and have another Papal election. . .