Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

[Luigi_Daniele]

Personally, I haven’t found Pope Francis to be more charismatic than Pope Benedict. His style is more of a friar while Pope Benedict’s was more the beloved professor. The latter was more personally appealing, but that’s just me.

I have read the texts of his homily from this morning as well as his earlier ones. **He has said absolutely nothing new. ** I get his message as we need to keep doing what we are doing and continually try to do it better. I would expect nothing less from any Pope.

I like this a great deal.

 

[The_Bucket]

I loved your statement that Pope Francis knows when simplicity is in order and when a glorious display of the Church’s beauty and ceremony is in order. I got to watch a few minutes of the Installation Mass this morning and the reverence and sacred environment was enhanced by the beauty of the vessles and the candlesticks and incensor. Handing down of tradition as well as the specific items shows respect for our past and honors God.
However Pope Francis also left the Popemobile to encounter crowds face to face, rode the bus with the rest of the Cardinals and as Cardinal Timothy Dolan noted, when they went into a room for dinner, Pope Francis just took an available seat, not demanding some special seating due to his rank.

We have no knowledge if Jesus sat at the head of the table at the Last Supper or if even there was a head of the table. Chances are they were all reclining on the ground since they took those sorts of things quite literally. And did not the Lord say that we should take the lowest seat so that we can later be moved up? I see that in Pope Francis.

His humility is an outward sign of his authority. It’s all about the courage to be tender and merciful as he was saying in his homily today.

But look, it’s a pastoral style. Some people are more formal than others. Some parishes are filled with people who loved the Latin Mass. The smells and bells as it were. They should be allowed this style. Worship in Latin America and Africa is much different and it is right to comport to these cultural differences provided that an atmosphere of love and reverence is maintained.

Pope Benedict preferred to be more formal in his public appearances and more personal in his writings. That’s OK. Pope Francis likes to be less formal in his public appearances outside of the sacrifice of the Mass. This is also OK. What’s good is that each Catholic has a prime example of what he prefers style-wise without disputing that all of these styles are perfectly licit. If high art and the high Mass puts you in a mindset closer to God, go for it. If simplicity is what draws you in to Christ, go for it.

 

[Brendan_64]

More good points. As one poster (Corki?) said, having a driver allows for additional work and communication. I doubt if anyone wants to see Pope Francis or one of the Cardinals texting while driving!

Of course not, they could always call a cab. Or would travelling in taxis be beneath their princely status?

 

[The_Bucket]

Should bishops also be booking their own plane flights or is it ok for them to have secretaries take care of that? Brendan there are far more salient criticisms to make when it comes to extravagance. Blasting private car services for bishops who have extremely busy schedules is not one of them.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Bravo! Love your comments, particularly the last section. As Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI noted, love is not merely the handing over of dollars whether via Catholic Charities or through taxation. We are to encounter the poor face to face as he has modelled before and after becoming Pope…much to the chagrin of the Swiss Guard and his security staff!

I am also put off by the term “social justice” which for too many translate into forced redistribution rather than appealing to our better angel, our Christian love and charity, as well as our duty to share the gifts God has given too us.

Also in full agreement that people make excuses why they left the Church or why they would never consider Catholicism. For some as Jack Nicholson said “You can’t handle the Truth!” and because the Church’s teachings particularly regarding sexuality and reproduction would cramp their style. Then we have those who point to the abuse scandal or to a priest that yelled at them during Reconciliation.

I do hope the honeymoon lasts long enough for Pope Francis to have some impact on our increasingly secular world. He’s got a lot of challenges ahead so I know he is receiving prayers from all over the globe.

Lisa

Love of the poor is not simply cutting a check and looking the other way.

Loving our neighbor is not simply validating his beavhior in addition to his self worth. We have to do the hard part for each as well. Lift up the poorest among us, and minister to them. Correct of brothers who err, and lead them out of their lives of sin.

Quite a challenge.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Personally, I haven’t found Pope Francis to be more charismatic than Pope Benedict. His style is more of a friar while Pope Benedict’s was more the beloved professor. The latter was more personally appealing, but that’s just me.

I have read the texts of his homily from this morning as well as his earlier ones. **He has said absolutely nothing new. ** I get his message as we need to keep doing what we are doing and continually try to do it better. I would expect nothing less from any Pope.

Amen. Too many people are mistaking different personalities for different tenets of the faith. When you separate the faith from the men espousing it, it is the same (and ALWAYS will be).

 

[jwinch2]

Amen. Too many people are mistaking different personalities for different tenets of the faith. When you separate the faith from the men espousing it, it is the same (and ALWAYS will be).

Very good points. This is one of the reasons that priests are moved around on a regular basis. It isn’t supposed to be a cult of personality about the priest, or in this case, about the pope. If it was true 2 months ago under Pope Benedict, its true today under Pope Francis.

I read an article a couple of days ago about someone who made some blog posts this week about the liturgy. The funny thing is that the blog posts were written well before the conclave, but they hadn’t been published yet. However, when he published them, he got all sorts of negative comments because his comments on the liturgy were seen as a criticism of Pope Francis. He was blown away by this and his comments were simple, and true: “This is not Catholicism”. If something was perfectly orthodox to say two months ago when Pope Benedict was our Holy Father, then it is perfectly orthodox to say the same thing today. If the liturgical choices established by Pope Benedict were rooted in the traditions and preferences of the Church rather than just being his own personal preferences, and they were, then this is just as true today as it was during his pontificate. Pope Benedict did not introduce new things into the liturgy, he returned to the use of what had always been the preferences of the Church, and there is a HUGE difference. Pope Benedict did not introduce the idea of authentic charity being rooted in truth, or of spiritual works of mercy being of great importance along side of the corporal works. Rather, he re-stated the importance of something which had always been the teachings of the Church in this area.

I rarely agree with Michael Voris, but he actually made a good point in one of his most recent videos. He made the claim that, due to his personal style which is simpler and his emphasis on the poor, that modernists in the Church will try to kidnap him and use his personal conviction as a hammer to push for alterations in the interpretation of Church teachings in areas like social justice, the liturgy, moral issues, etc. Like I said, he and I don’t see eye to eye on much, but I think he has some good points this time around.

The bottom line is this, there is no reason for our understanding of Faith, the liturgy, moral issues, etc. to be different now then they were two weeks ago. In fact, Pope Francis has done very little in the way of teaching at all. A couple of homilies that he probably put together in great haste due to being so busy in the last week do not an encyclical make. If it was appropriate to say something before his pontificate in particular way, it is appropriate to say it now in the same fashion.

 

[CMatt25]

There is a progressive Episcopal parish nearby and so fat they are enthusiastic. Funny EWTN called him the first green Pope. That is what one of the members of that church said too. Plus his progressive stance on economic justice and criticism of elements of capitalism.

One EWTN host asked about how the Pope will pose challenges to Republican Catholics.

I listen to some Protestant radio. Very conservative and they are not so happy with the Pope for the very same reasons. They seem to think Jeus was a capitalist which he wasn’t.

Hopefully the mainline churches can work more closely with the Catholic church on these issues.

I know last wk the former Roman Catholic priest who became an Episcopal priest, Fr Alberto Cutie, was on CNN and said the new Pope’s humility early on was promising.

I agree very conservative Protestants and Republican Catholics seem to have the idea. that Jesus shared their economic theories. But I’ve never really understood their thinking either about Jesus.

 

[Lucky7]

:
I have read the texts of his homily from this morning as well as his earlier ones. **He has said absolutely nothing new. ** I get his message as we need to keep doing what we are doing and continually try to do it better. I would expect nothing less from any Pope.

But he hasn’t spoken about abortion and gay marriage! This is why so many liberal Catholics are loving him. He is focusing on the poor!

It’s only a matter of time before the honeymoon is over…trust me.

Then they won’t love him so much.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But he hasn’t spoken about abortion and gay marriage! This is why so many liberal Catholics are loving him. He is focusing on the poor!

It’s only a matter of time before the honeymoon is over…trust me.

Then they won’t love him so much.

Actually, he has spoken publicly on both issues, and we know the Church will not change on those issues. There is no liberal or conservative in the Gospel, or Church. There is Truth. Wouldn’t it be great if he could unite the Church somewhat?

 

[Dawnia]

But he hasn’t spoken about abortion and gay marriage! This is why so many liberal Catholics are loving him. He is focusing on the poor!

He did…just not in those words.

From his homily at the inauguration Mass…

Please, I would like to ask all those who have positions of responsibility in economic, political and social life, and all men and women of goodwill: let us be “protectors” of creation, protectors of God’s plan inscribed in nature, protectors of one another and of the environment. Let us not allow omens of destruction and death to accompany the advance of this

 

[Brendan_64]

There is no liberal or conservative in the Gospel, or Church. There is Truth.

 

[Lucky7]

Actually, he has spoken publicly on both issues, and we know the Church will not change on those issues. There is no liberal or conservative in the Gospel, or Church. There is Truth. Wouldn’t it be great if he could unite the Church somewhat?

Yes, but there are liberal Catholics who consider themselves progressive, so let’s not get into whether those labels are in the Gospel. You know what I mean.

These liberal/progressive Catholics have no interest in changing their minds on abortion and gay marriage…and they truly believe that the Church can change on those issues…in time. So what I said still holds. Their love of the Pope will wane when he makes those statements as Pope and makes it clear they aren’t changing despite all of the other reforms (little “r” vs big “R”) he is making…it’s just a matter of time.

 

[Lucky7]

He did…just not in those words.

From his homily at the inauguration Mass…

Those words are vague. I’m talking when he speaks explicitly.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I agree very conservative Protestants and Republican Catholics seem to have the idea. that Jesus shared their economic theories. But I’ve never really understood their thinking either about Jesus.

Should Pope Francis sell St. Peter’s Basilica, liquidate Vatican treasures, empty Church coffers, and require Cardinals to ride bicycles to save on limousine expenses? Surely, that will eradicate global poverty and make liberal Protestants and Catholic Democrats happy.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes, but there are liberal Catholics who consider themselves progressive, so let’s not get into whether those labels are in the Gospel. You know what I mean.

These liberal/progressive Catholics have no interest in changing their minds on abortion and gay marriage…and they truly believe that the Church can change on those issues…in time. So what I said still holds. Their love of the Pope will wane when he makes those statements as Pope and makes it clear they aren’t changing despite all of the other reforms (little “r” vs big “R”) he is making…it’s just a matter of time.

There are many issues he could speak on that would ‘disenchant’ those that hold to either political view. I don’t believe he will speak politically though.

 

[Lucky7]

There are many issues he could speak on that would ‘disenchant’ those that hold to either political view. I don’t believe he will speak politically though.

Church teaching bleeds into the realm of politics (or would that be the other way around?). He won’t be able to escape that. Unless you think he won’t speak out on Church teaching?

 

[CMatt25]

Not to mention marriage, religious liberty, etc.

Fix brought up children. Pope Francis mentioned caring for children and the elderly in his homily today. But after reading his background upon his election and how conservative posters on CAF seemed pleased, I have to confess I’ve been somewhat surprised he has not opened his papacy with other topics such as those you mentioned. Ones which are often the topics of threads here. Especially since these first days one would think at least are to give an indication of what he intends the focus of his papacy to be. So far at least it seems to have been a heavy dose of humility and not condemning others and advocacy for the poor. As with any Pope though time will tell how he leads.

 

[Lucky7]

Fix brought up children. Pope Francis mentioned caring for children and the elderly in his homily today. But after reading his background upon his election and how conservative posters on CAF seemed pleased, I have to confess I’ve been somewhat surprised he has not opened his papacy with other topics such as those you mentioned. Ones which are often the topics of threads here. Especially since these first days one would think at least are to give an indication of what he intends the focus of his papacy to be. So far at least it seems to have been a heavy dose of humility and not condemning others and advocacy for the poor. As with any Pope though time will tell how he leads.

I’m hoping he’s got a plan.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Fix brought up children. Pope Francis mentioned caring for children and the elderly in his homily today. But after reading his background upon his election and how conservative posters on CAF seemed pleased, I have to confess I’ve been somewhat surprised he has not opened his papacy with other topics such as those you mentioned. Ones which are often the topics of threads here. Especially since these first days one would think at least are to give an indication of what he intends the focus of his papacy to be. So far at least it seems to have been a heavy dose of humility and not condemning others and advocacy for the poor. As with any Pope though time will tell how he leads.

True. We do know that he is firmly against abortion and same sex so-called marriage.