Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

[Luigi_Daniele]

Why do some CA members want the Church to be ‘poor’ or project the public image of a ‘poor Church’. If our local Fairfax County Fire Chief is entitled to a car and driver, why not a Cardinal?

Well, I bet most people don’t look to the chief as a spiritual example

Put another way: Jesus rode a donkey, not a horse or in a chariot. Think donkey=regular car, horse=Ferrari, chariot=limo

EDIT: I had written the three letter word for donkey, but it was blocked, so I changed it to donkey

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, I bet most people don’t look to the chief as a spiritual example

Put another way: Jesus rode an ***, not a horse. Think ***=regular car, horse=Ferrari or limo

On the other hand, horses in AD 33 were not really used for transport. They were used for war.

Donkeys were the equivalent to a fairly ‘Cadillac’ type of ride. Most people WALKED. If you rode a donkey and you weren’t ill, or going on a long journey, you were pretty much symbolically an ‘important person’.

So the ‘Jesus rode a donkey, therefore we should use plain car transport’ analogy doesn’t really reflect an accurate view of AD 33 Palestine custom.

 

[Lucky7]

Put another way: Jesus rode a donkey, not a horse or in a chariot. Think donkey=regular car, horse=Ferrari, chariot=limo

EDIT: I had written the three letter word for donkey, but it was blocked, so I changed it to donkey

But that doesn’t seem to be what they are driving at (pun intended). I admit I haven’t read every post but it does seem like a number of posters would like it if none of the Cardinals even had a (regualr) car.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

He will address issues of faith and morals that also have political implications. That won’t change the fact that they are the Gospel message.

Clarity would be great, but his teachings will be dissected, parsed, and spun to fit political ideologies; or considered ‘prudential judgments.’ The lack of any expressed instruction will be used as ‘fill in the blank,’ whether he intended it to be left up to individual consciences or not; all to advance political views.

God does not have a political party. His is a monarchy, and He is King. Political parties are creations of men.

I agree, but politics are one the primary ways God’s plans for mankind is levied onto citizens of the world. They have to mesh with God’s plan, at least since we left Eden.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

But that doesn’t seem to be what they are driving at (pun intended). I admit I haven’t read every post but it does seem like a number of posters would like it if none of the Cardinals even had a (regualr) car.

If this is indeed true, then it is very misguided, if you’ll pardon my saying so. Efficient transportation means more contact with their flocks. Seems like a very good thing to me.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If this is indeed true, then it is very misguided, if you’ll pardon my saying so. Efficient transportation means more contact with their flocks. Seems like a very good thing to me.

Not to mention that the people driving rely on this as their job. No more chauffeurs? Well, that’s X number of people out of work and X number of families affected. . .

 

[Brendan_64]

Not to mention that the people driving rely on this as their job. No more chauffeurs? Well, that’s X number of people out of work and X number of families affected. . .

Perhaps those drivers could be employed helping ferry some of the infirm, and the needy, to Mass?

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Well, I bet most people don’t look to the chief as a spiritual example

Put another way: Jesus rode a donkey, not a horse or in a chariot. Think donkey=regular car, horse=Ferrari, chariot=limo

EDIT: I had written the three letter word for donkey, but it was blocked, so I changed it to donkey

Perhaps a horse or chariot were unavailable. Our Lord rode economy.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Perhaps a horse or chariot were unavailable. Our Lord rode economy.

Hahaha

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I’m a lawyer. We employ a maid service and a lawn maintenance service. We also donate generously to two Catholic parishes, Catholic Charities, and Purple Heart, so we are not unmindful of our Christian obligations. Should we forgo domestic services and donate that to the poor as well? My wife and I work long hours and often bring work home, so domestic help gives us more time for combined work and leisure time. Cardinals spend their days in significant work on behalf of the international Church. Should they cut into that work by hailing cabs, riding buses, or hopping on a bicycle? I think not.

 

[Brendan_64]

My wife and I work long hours and often bring work home, so domestic help gives us more time for combined work and leisure time.

A great many other people also work such hours and take work home,.but cannot afford to employ maids and gardeners. Your domestic help would be regarded as an unnecessary and extravagant luxury by a great many of such people.

Of course it’s your money and you’re perfectly entitled to spend it as you wish, but you are able to employ such services simply because you are very wealthy, not because actually need such services. To anyone but the old and inform, domestic help is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I’m a lawyer. We employ a maid service and a lawn maintenance service. We also donate generously to two Catholic parishes, Catholic Charities, and Purple Heart, so we are not unmindful of our Christian obligations. Should we forgo domestic services and donate that to the poor as well? My wife and I work long hours and often bring work home, so domestic help gives us more time for combined work and leisure time. Cardinals spend their days in significant work on behalf of the international Church. Should they cut into that work by hailing cabs, riding buses, or hopping on a bicycle? I think not.

I see where you are coming from, amico mio. The point (I think) of those arguing the other side is that the Holy Father has modeled a different paradigm for, at least, the clergy. We will see how it goes.

No one expects Papa Francesco to clean St Peter’s.

 

[Prieldedi]

Perhaps those drivers could be employed helping ferry some of the infirm, and the needy, to Mass?

A part time job?

Besides, in whose cars? Who would hire the drivers? Some things are easier said than done.

Did you miss my post at the end of page 18?

 

[Brendan_64]

A part time job?

Besides, in whose cars? Who would hire the drivers? Some things are easier said than done.

Not a part time job. The Church could continue to employ these drivers, but deploy them to help the infirm and the needy. Or is that not the business of the Church?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

With all due respect, people lose their jobs all the time. I am in no way insensitive to their plight. However, at one time Church leaders went about in horse drawn carriages. Should they still be doing so because someone might have lost their job?

If (and that’s a huge if at this point), the Church no longer needs their services as drivers because of a change in Vatican policy, then I absolutely would encourage a “job placement” program for those affected.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

A great many other people also work such hours and take work home,.but cannot afford to employ maids and gardeners. Your domestic help would be regarded as an unnecessary and extravagant luxury by a great many of such people.

Of course it’s your money and you’re perfectly entitled to spend it as you wish, but you are able to employ such services simply because you are very wealthy, not because actually need such services. To anyone but the old and inform, domestic help is a luxury, not a necessity.

We are not wealthy, but certainly well off. I’m neither proud or dismissive of our financial situation. And I specifically said maid service and lawn maintenance, not a gardener (my wife would take great issue with you over her small but lovingly tended gardens). Besides, maid and lawn services are relatively inexpensive these days. One does not have to be wealthy to afford them. I know the workers are glad to have the employment. My point was to analogize the situation of the Cardinals using chauffeured transportation. Their work is much more important than mine, so the Cardinals should employ all reasonable assistance they can to enhance their critical work for the Church.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I see where you are coming from, amico mio. The point (I think) of those arguing the other side is that the Holy Father has modeled a different paradigm for, at least, the clergy. We will see how it goes.

No one expects Papa Francesco to clean St Peter’s.

Especially not in red shoes!

 

[ProVobis]

Perhaps a horse or chariot were unavailable. Our Lord rode economy.

On roads that were probably better than our potholes.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

On roads that were probably better than our potholes.

Especially if you’ve driven in Washington, DC. They have potholes capable of swallowing cars. Imagine the fate of a poor donkey on DC’s streets! Our Lord probably would likely have been ‘donkeyjacked’ in certain parts of the city!

 

[Brendan_64]

We are not wealthy, but certainly well off.

And that would all be relative. How does your income compare to average earnings? Anyone earning several times the national average earnings cannot really claim to be anything other than wealthy. I’m not knocking you for it though, good luck to you (in truth I’m probably just slightly jealous I have a brother who is a lawyer).