Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

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Brendan_64 said:
Not a part time job. The Church could continue to employ these drivers, but deploy them to help the infirm and the needy. Or is that not the business of the Church?
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What you say cannot be accomplished in every country. We have very poor dioceses, at best they have a vehicle for the priest to go to 5 or 6 churches each Sunday, plus what they do on a daily basis and holidays. There are no extra vehicles to carry around the infirm and the needy.

The more affluent dioceses might have the capability to hire a driver, and again they have one car. The Bishops (we have 8) usually have a driver, which is necessary as they do the same thing, go to 4 or 5 different parishes (on non paved roads at times) to say Mass at each place. To have someone to drive for you is even recommended as the Bishop gets tired and can cause an accident. Besides, some of these Bishops are elderly, which is the case of our Cardinal, who is 87 years old and has a driver.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
I see where you are coming from, amico mio. The point (I think) of those arguing the other side is that the Holy Father has modeled a different paradigm for, at least, the clergy. We will see how it goes.

** No one expects Papa Francesco to clean St Peter’s**. 😉
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No, no one expects that, but from what I’ve seen of him so far, I get the impression he would find a broom and get to work if it was necessary. 🙂
 
Frank_Drebin said:
I agree, but politics are one the primary ways God’s plans for mankind is levied onto citizens of the world. They have to mesh with God’s plan, at least since we left Eden.
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What period, and where, was it that politics meshed with God’s plan?
 
I have not had the chance to read this entire thread (sorry :o ) but,
even though I am a bit concerned about having a Vatican garage sale :o 😉

I recently read something about how the Holy Father thinks people spend way
too much money on cosmetics, plastic surgery & treat their animals
like humans. To the point of idolatry. They turn their animals into IDOLS!!
Some people do not even have children, but multiple pets, and they treat them better
than they treat their own loved ones.

So, instead of getting rid of beautiful things that HONOR our Lord in the Sacrifice
of the Holy Mass, or other items that have been used for years as part of what
MAKES us Catholic. I am ALL for people to stop spending the amount of money they spend on animals, cosmetics, plastic surgery & give it all to the poor!!👍

I think this was something he said on an EWTN interview as well as other
written publications. This has been his opinion for many years.

So, lets stop idolizing our pets, physical appearance, etc. etc.😉

I definitely do NOT want a Vatican garage sale :o but again, my opinion does not
matter…

God bless you all. 🙂
 
Brendan_64 said:
And how are you in a position to judge what I do or do not give to ‘the poor’?
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How are you in a position to judge what the Catholic Church does for the poor. You want to judge others but not yourself it seems.
 
Megan7 said:
I have not had the chance to read this entire thread (sorry :o ) but,
even though I am a bit concerned about having a Vatican garage sale :o 😉

I recently read something about how the Holy Father thinks people spend way
too much money on cosmetics, plastic surgery & treat their animals
like humans. To the point of idolatry. They turn their animals into IDOLS!!
Some people do not even have children, but multiple pets, and they treat them better
than they treat their own loved ones.

So, instead of getting rid of beautiful things that HONOR our Lord in the Sacrifice
of the Holy Mass, or other items that have been used for years as part of what
MAKES us Catholic. I am ALL for people to stop spending the amount of money they spend on animals, cosmetics, plastic surgery & give it all to the poor!!👍

I think this was something he said on an EWTN interview as well as other
written publications. This has been his opinion for many years.

So, lets stop idolizing our pets, physical appearance, etc. etc.😉

I definitely do NOT want a Vatican garage sale :o but again, my opinion does not
matter…

God bless you all. 🙂
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Yes, but isn’t St. Francis the Patron Saint of all animals?

Actually, I was reading where the number of cats and dogs owned by Americans has been decreasing since 2007. It appears vet bills are getting costlier and costlier.
 
ProVobis said:
Yes, but isn’t St. Francis the Patron Saint of all animals?
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This is just my humble opinion…

Yeah, I knew someone would say this, LOL but, hey the Pope is
the one saying we IDOLIZE animals, and he is right 😉 I agree with him.

Have you seen how some people treat their animals???

Have you ever been in New York City during the Dog show? Where people pay a
room in a hotel just for their dogs :banghead: And have a dog trainer being
paid as a baby sitter for their precious children, I mean pets :rolleyes: LOL!

And if you do not want to get into the elevator with them,
because the dog is bigger than a lion,
and you are a tad scared,
they become rude because you are suposed to show
love towards their children :rolleyes: I mean animals.

And they feel discriminated
against & make a big deal if they are told to take
the service elevator.
What about if I am allergic, oh, no, I have to put up with taking the
elevator with a bunch of loud dogs, so I am politically correct…
And I do not offend them…

People easliy abort babies, but when it comes to pets, oh, no,
they are sooo precious!! So, in fact we have made our pets
into Gods, into Idols!

And believe me I love dogs, but some people take it to the extreme…

Again, Pope Francis is NOT a Franciscan, even though he took the name Francis 😉
He is a JESUIT.

So, instead of giving up beautiful things that MAKE US CATHOLIC, items that
help us just like our Sacramentals, to pray, to keep the Faith, etc.

Lets stop treating animals like members of the family, and
spending huge amounts of money on those animals, training classes for pets,
lets stop spending money on cosmetics, plastic surgeries, gyms, exersize
equipment, etc. etc.
And give it ALL to the poor!

But, lets leave our Liturgies, Catholic Sacramentals, Vestments, Lace, beautiful
Churches, etc. alone!!!:highprayer:

Because if we have a VATICAN garage sale 😉 then what would
differentiate us from a Protestant Church & or Service? And YES,
I realize we have the TRUE Presence. And the Sacraments.

And if we get rid of a lot of items in the Vatican,
how are we going to generate money
to send to the poor.
Because people visit certain places in Vatican City
that generate money for the Church, right?

If everyone is poor, who is going to help the poor?

And the thing about the cars, limo service, you have to really evaluate that,
because I know for a fact, that certain banks, law firms, businesses in New
York pay for a service
because its cheaper for them compared to other public transportation.
Because they are getting a contract on a monthly or annual basis.
The cars seem like a limo, are more comfortable than a regular taxi & or bus,
yet because of volume or amount used, turns out cheaper… So, in
appearance it might seem like you are being frugal by taking the bus,
but in reality its costing more in the long run. Especially if you have a long
term contract or own the fleet of cars.

Everything has a purpose, a place, words mean something, Sacramentals help us
along the way…We need certain Catholic items to identify us as Catholic. To help
us on our journey…

Even Protestants say, how they used to know who was Catholic, because people
would not eat meat on Fridays. And restaurants would also sell fish because
of Fridays. Even Protestants use to know what a real Catholic Church looked like,
and when they convert & visit some Churches, they go, what happened here? This
is just like what I left, I came for splendor, honor to God in the details, and I got
more of the same??? Then, why bother converting???

Pax 🙂
 
Prieldedi said:
What you say cannot be accomplished in every country. We have very poor dioceses, at best they have a vehicle for the priest to go to 5 or 6 churches each Sunday, plus what they do on a daily basis and holidays. There are no extra vehicles to carry around the infirm and the needy.

The more affluent dioceses might have the capability to hire a driver, and again they have one car. The Bishops (we have 8) usually have a driver, which is necessary as they do the same thing, go to 4 or 5 different parishes (on non paved roads at times) to say Mass at each place. To have someone to drive for you is even recommended as the Bishop gets tired and can cause an accident. Besides, some of these Bishops are elderly, which is the case of our Cardinal, who is 87 years old and has a driver.
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You make a very good point…to say Church (singular) in the context of this discussion is not sufficient. The resources made available in Rome or New York, or Los Angeles, etc… far exceed anything that would be seen in the average parish in my neck of the woods…and their resources would far exceed those of parishes in many areas of the world.
I don’t know if it is possible to level the field a bit, but it sounds as if the new Pope may have it in his mind to try.

John
 
Dawnia said:
How dare you call my fur babies…animals. They are family. Now I’m going to have to take them to the doggie therapist. 😛
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Also, in some cities, it’s not OK to refer to oneself as a pet “owner.” There has been legislation to change that to “guardian.”
 
Megan7, I listened to the video with the then pope also.

youtube.com/watch?v=w7A0PyKITdw

I learned a lot more about him. I liked that he is against spending so much $ on cosmetology and your animals.

About Pope Francis wanting the Church to be poor, I think it might mean two things. He wants us to be less addicted to our stuff so we can give our excess to the truly poor and to be poor in spirit, humble servants.
 
pete_29 said:
How are you in a position to judge what the Catholic Church does for the poor. You want to judge others but not yourself it seems.
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I have never judged what the Catholic Church does for the poor. All I have said is that helping the poor and the needy IS the business of the Church (Pope Francis has also reiterated as much in his homily) and I suggested a small way in which the Vatican could consider redeploy a very tiny part of its spending to further assist those in need…I do feel that the Church (like all of us who are better off) ought to strive to do even more to help the poor. I can’t see any issue with that position. We all need to strive to do more to be, not just helpers of the poor, but as Pope Francis has said ‘Protectors of the poor’.
 
Megan7 said:
So, lets stop idolizing our pets, physical appearance,
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I’m half-way there. I still idolize my cats (they won’t have it any other way) but I gave up on my physical appearance years ago.
 
People make such an issue over the cardinals having drivers. I would have too until I spent a week in Rome last spring. :eek: I would never drive in that city. True story - I was actually helped across the street to St. John Lateran by an old man with a cane - he’d hold his cane up and people would stop (or at least slow down). And all the people zipping around on scooters? Beyond this we’ve all seen the cardinals on tv. Do any of us really think the local population would be safer by having them drive cars or scooters? No thank you. Let them keep their drivers and get on with the real business of being the Church.
 
Megan7 said:
Again, Pope Francis is NOT a Franciscan, even though he took the name Francis 😉
He is a JESUIT.
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Well, in that case, I’ll make sure the birds and squirrels outside have enough to eat as well. 🙂
 
Brendan_64 said:
All I have said is that helping the poor and the needy IS the business of the Church
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As is the saving of souls
As is being a witness to the in-dwelling of God in the human heart and in the earth
As is personal holiness achieved through prayer and all the spiritua resources of the Church.
As is education

The Church is NOT “a business,” and Pope Francis has also made that very clear. (“Not a compassionate NGO.”) There are social workers, as individuals and as groups, that have done that better, and will continue to do some of the practical aspects better than the Catholic Church does, because the former have the organizational tools in which to do it. I don’t think they should be the only groups to do it, and you would need to read through some of my posts on the issue of poverty to know where I stand. Nor does the Church think that such work should be left to secular social workers, given that the Church herself does much outreach to the poor.
 
Megan7 said:
I have not had the chance to read this entire thread (sorry :o ) but,
even though I am a bit concerned about having a Vatican garage sale :o 😉

I recently read something about how the Holy Father thinks people spend way
too much money on cosmetics, plastic surgery & treat their animals
like humans. To the point of idolatry. They turn their animals into IDOLS!!
Some people do not even have children, but multiple pets, and they treat them better
than they treat their own loved ones.

So, instead of getting rid of beautiful things that HONOR our Lord in the Sacrifice
of the Holy Mass, or other items that have been used for years as part of what
MAKES us Catholic. I am ALL for people to stop spending the amount of money they spend on animals, cosmetics, plastic surgery & give it all to the poor!!👍

I think this was something he said on an EWTN interview as well as other
written publications. This has been his opinion for many years.

So, lets stop idolizing our pets, physical appearance, etc. etc.😉

I definitely do NOT want a Vatican garage sale :o but again, my opinion does not
matter…

God bless you all. 🙂
Click to expand...
Yes, he said this in an interview given several months ago to EWTN (before Pope Em. Benedict had even resigned.)

I agree that many (especially in the First World) send our money selfishly. I have a sense that when Pope Francs spoke of “the Church” be wasn’t necessarily saying the Vatican, but all of us as the Church, the Body of Christ on earth.

We should all look to our spending on things like pets, fashion, and other non-necessities.
 
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