Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

[Brendan_64]

As is the saving of souls
As is being a witness to the in-dwelling of God in the human heart and in the earth
As is personal holiness achieved through prayer and all the spiritua resources of the Church.
As is education

The Church is NOT “a business,” and Pope Francis has also made that very clear. (“Not a compassionate NGO.”) There are social workers, as individuals and as groups, that have done that better, and will continue to do some of the practical aspects better than the Catholic Church does, because the former have the organizational tools in which to do it. I don’t think they should be the only groups to do it, and you would need to read through some of my posts on the issue of poverty to know where I stand. Nor does the Church think that such work should be left to secular social workers, given that the Church herself does much outreach to the poor.

And where do you get the impression that I think that the above are not important? Where did you get the impression that I believe the Church should be just another NGO?

However the Holy Father has made it clear that as Christians, and as a Church it is part of our scared duty to care for the poor and needy, in fact more than that, we are to be protectors of the poor and needy. This should in fact be one of our core missions. If this was not the case the the Holy father would not have talked so much about our (and those with political and economic power) duty to be protectors of the poor. He mentioned poverty more than anything else in his homily, and with such passion. No longer can we hide behind our ‘bells and smells’ and pretend that protecting the poor is someone else’s business and something that is not a core part of our mission as Christians.

And I did NOT say that the Church is a business (as well you know). I said that caring for the poor is the Church’s business. That is a very different thing. As an individual you are NOT a business, yet there are certainly things that are your business.

 

[Elizabeth502]

And where do you get the impression that I think that the above are not important? Where did you get the impression that I believe the Church should be just another NGO?

Here:

helping the poor and the needy IS the business of the Church (Pope Francis has also reiterated as much in his homily)

You used a singular subject and a singular verb, suggesting that there is a “single” “business,” as you said for the Church. This is very inaccurate. And by capitalizing the singular verb “IS,” you are applying reductionism to the mission of the Church, which is actually first of all salvation, as the Church defines herself, not as you or I or anyone else defines her.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Any time that we try to emphasize one particular ‘action’ or ‘duty’ of the Church (meaning all of us as Christians) above any of the others, we risk going out of balance.

Yes, it is very important for us as Christians to help the poor. However, it is not our only duty or even our fundamental duty.

What do we mean by 'helping the poor"? helping them FINANCIALLY so that they need not hunger? Well and good, but if that is ALL we are doing, we are ignoring that their spirit and soul are hungry as well.

If the focus (and I do NOT think Pope Francis is advocating this, but some posters are!) becomes, “too many Christians are wasting money instead of helping the poor financially, so the ‘rich’ ones need to give up wealth until they and the poor are ‘equal’ in what they possess in material goods”. . .that is not social justice, it’s communism.

If the focus (and I think Pope Francis IS saying this, and so are some posters!) is, "too many Christians are neglecting their souls and the souls of the poor because they are too focused on material goods, THEREFORE they need to stop being wasteful though they need not for example throw away perfectly good things and purchase burlap instead! and that way, what they SAVE will give more resources available to others, PLUS the reason WHY they are doing it AND a concurrent focus on directing others to Christian life of simplicity and stewardship for LOVE OF GOD and thus feeding the poor BODY AND SOUL as well as ‘the rich’ is what we should do. . .

then I’m all for it.

 

[Brendan_64]

Here:

You used a singular subject and a singular verb, suggesting that there is a “single” “business,” as you said for the Church. This is very inaccurate. And by capitalizing the singular verb “IS,” you are applying reductionism to the mission of the Church, which is actually first of all salvation, as the Church defines herself, not as you or I or anyone else defines her.

Nonsense. Caring for the poor IS also my business (as are many other things) yet I am not a business.

Stop trying to twist my words. I’m sure you knew exactly what I meant.

 

[Brendan_64]

Any time that we try to emphasize one particular ‘action’ or ‘duty’ of the Church (meaning all of us as Christians) above any of the others, we risk going out of balance.

Why then did Pope Francis focus so much of his homily precisely on our duty to protect the poor? He did emphasise that more than anything else in his homily, and he did it with such passion. He clearly feels that this is a part of our spiritual duty that we (as individuals and as a Church) need to focus considerably more on.

Is the Holy Father guilty of putting the Church out of balance on this?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Nonsense. Caring for the poor IS also my business (as are many other things) yet I am not a business.

Stop trying to twist my words. I’m sure you knew exactly what I meant.

No, I actually don’t know. My emphasis was not on your term “business.” My emphasis, which you have chosen to ignore twice now, is that you continue to use the singular noun, “business” (would be the same if you used the singular noun “mission” or “purpose” or “task”). Read Tantum Ergo’s excellent Reply.

And you are simply wrong, according to the Roman Catholic Church. She does not see herself as having a single task, let alone a single task of “helping the poor.” Helping the poor is one key commandment, inherited from the Judaic code which Jesus adopted and reinforced in the Gospels, especially as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew.

Repeat: The Business of the Church is the salvation of souls.

From the Catechism:

777 The word “Church” means “convocation.” It designates the assembly of those whom God’s Word “convokes,” i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ.

778 The Church is both the means and the goal of God’s plan: prefigured in creation, prepared for in the Old Covenant, founded by the words and actions of Jesus Christ, fulfilled by his redeeming cross and his Resurrection, the Church has been manifested as the mystery of salvation by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. She will be perfected in the glory of heaven as the assembly of all the redeemed of the earth (cf. Rev 14:4).

779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.

780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

 

[Corki]

Why then did Pope Francis focus so much of his homily precisely on our duty to protect the poor? He did emphasise that more than anything else in his homily, and he did it with such passion. He clearly feels that this is a part of our spiritual duty that we (as individuals and as a Church) need to focus considerably more on.

Is the Holy Father guilty of putting the Church out of balance on this?

Every homily has a theme. Only time will tell, but I doubt very much that every one of Pope Francis’ homilies will have the same theme. Just because some element of Catholicism was or was not mentioned during a single homily or season of the Church, does not equate to a change in the importance.

 

[Brendan_64]

Every homily has a theme. Only time will tell, but I doubt very much that every one of Pope Francis’ homilies will have the same theme. Just because some element of Catholicism was or was not mentioned during a single homily or season of the Church, does not equate to a change in the importance.

But it wasn’t just another homily was it? It was the homily at his inauguration Mass, the one that the whole world (Catholic and non-Catholic alike) would be listening to. If there was any homily to use to get a message that he held to be of particularly special significance across, that that was the homily to do it.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Why then did Pope Francis focus so much of his homily precisely on our duty to protect the poor? He did emphasise that more than anything else in his homily, and he did it with such passion. He clearly feels that this is a part of our spiritual duty that we (as individuals and as a Church) need to focus considerably more on.

Is the Holy Father guilty of putting the Church out of balance on this?

The Holy Father spoke in ONE HOMILY on a subject dear to his heart. He didn’t however say that our duty was to give to the poor only financially (neither did you, but a lot of posters seem to be solely considering material goods alone), nor that it was his ONLY concern or greatest concern.

Again, we shouldn’t make Pope Francis into a ‘one-issue’ Pope.

 

[Brendan_64]

No, I actually don’t know. My emphasis was not on your term “business.” My emphasis, which you have chosen to ignore twice now, is that you continue to use the singular noun, “business” (would be the same if you used the singular noun “mission” or “purpose” or “task”).

I have no interest in arguing with you over grammar.

I did not mean that the Church has a single task. You are free of course to read anything into what I have written, but I can assure you that your interpretation of what I have written is wrong.

 

[Elizabeth502]

But it wasn’t just another homily was it? It was the homily at his inauguration Mass, the one that the whole world (Catholic and non-Catholic alike) would be listening to. If there was any homily to use to get a message that he held to be of particularly special significance across, that that was the homily to do it.

Yes, it was a signal that the issue of poverty is of special significance to him, as leader of the Church. Not that it was a signal of exclusive importance or “the” “business,” singular. Not even necessarily that it was “the most important.” Definitely this is important to him, or I agree – he would not have mentioned it in his Inaugural Mass.

It’s not that Pope Francis is “imbalanced.” It’s that people are lining up their own personal fave priorities and attributing those to him. He has a Church with many issues. Reaching the poor is one of several of those issues, and surely he knows that better than any of us lay people.

 

[Brendan_64]

Again, we shouldn’t make Pope Francis into a ‘one-issue’ Pope.

I entirely agree.

Nor should we downplay his the clear message in his inauguration Mass homily, and pretend that his message on poverty is merely a side issue for our Church.

 

[achaucenter1]

hehe …

 

[Elizabeth502]

I entirely agree.

Nor should we downplay his the clear message in his inauguration Mass homily, and pretend that his message on poverty is merely a side issue for our Church.

No one said it was “a side issue.” Some of us said that it is an important issue, and we said so several times. But he would know better than you or I what to prioritize and how to prioritize out of the many issues in front of the Roman Catholic Pontiff.

Nobody’s “downplaying” anything, except to say that there is no evidence that he will be a Single Issue Pope. We can all speculate, but we should all understand that it is only speculation, and therefore in a way, a “game.” (Not realisitc, so to speak.)

I could offer my own speculation, which has neither more nor less value than yours. Given his own statements, top issues of his will be, I believe:

*The New Evangelization. Importantly, I think his approach to this will be somewhat different in emphasis from his two predecessors who were also committed to this.

More efforts toward Unity: Within the traditions of Catholicism (i.e., Orthodoxy), and possibly other outreach still to be seen.

Catholic spirituality, big-time. (Interiority, prayer, even promoting Ignatian spirituality). Spirituality and prayer are not minor issues to him, but central issues.

Increased social justice emphasis, particularly in the Third World. My hope is that this will involve pressure on governments in those regions and suggested cooperative initiatives of some sort. Perhaps it will involve a more creative, sophisticated approach to allevating poverty.*
Again, this is all pure speculation, and of no particular predictive value than anyone else’s. I do believe it is factually predictive to say he will not be a One-Issue Pope, regardless of the content of his Inaugural Mass homily.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

It sounds like certain CA members expect Pope Francis, the Cardinals, and Bishops to don brown robes and sandals and take to the streets for the gathering of alms. Vatican treasures, basilicas, and cathedrals in First World lands will be sold and all proceeds distributed to Third World poor. Under our newly impoverished Church, we will be forced to gather in hovels or grottoes for the celebration of Holy Mass. Finally, we will have a “poor Church” bathed in humility and free of decadence and corruption…

 

[Brendan_64]

No one said it was “a side issue.” Some of us said that it is an important issue, and we said so several times.

And where has anyone on here said he will be a “single issue” Pope? I certainly haven’t.

Increased social justice emphasis, particularly in the Third World. My hope is that this will involve pressure on governments in those regions and suggested cooperative initiatives of some sort. Perhaps it will involve a more creative, sophisticated approach to allevating poverty.

And I for one hopes that his approach puts pressure on those organisations in our world with the most financial and political power (major economic powers, IMF, major corporations, banks etc.) to use that power to help and protect those in poverty throughout our world.

 

[Elizabeth502]

And where has anyone on here said he will be a “single issue” Pope? I certainly haven’t.

To several people on this thread, you implied that his inaugural homily signaled priority on the poor above all other issues. That cannot be concluded. As Corki said, homilies have particular themes; they cannot and should not be all over the map, or they lose their impact.

 

[GaryTaylor]

It sounds like certain CA members expect Pope Francis, the Cardinals, and Bishops to don brown robes and sandals and take to the streets for the gathering of alms. Vatican treasures, basilicas, and cathedrals in First World lands will be sold and all proceeds distributed to Third World poor. Under our newly impoverished Church, we will be forced to gather in hovels or grottoes for the celebration of Holy Mass. Finally, we will have a “poor Church” bathed in humility and free of decadence and corruption…

I don’t know about all that, but he already took the Benz limos and they are donning Taxi’s. Feet washing this weekend. And he’s looking for a few fishers of men to go. Oh you can rest assure business as usual is ancient history. The Red Shoes might be on ebay soon. Our new impoverished Church will be the Light for pilgrims, he’s already making people re think their reality. He even has you thinking Dave. Good Francis.

All trust is in Gods providential care.

 

[Brendan_64]

To several people on this thread, you implied that his inaugural homily signaled priority on the poor above all other issues. That cannot be concluded. As Corki said, homilies have particular themes; they cannot and should not be all over the map, or they lose their impact.

So you say that I implied that the inaugural homily signaled priority on the poor above all **other issues. Even this very sentence of yours shows that I was not implying that this would be a “single issue” Pope. If I had implied this then there would be no other **issues would there?

But I do think that protecting the poor and needy will be the key issue Pope Francis’s papacy.

 

[Lucky7]

It sounds like certain CA members expect Pope Francis, the Cardinals, and Bishops to don brown robes and sandals and take to the streets for the gathering of alms. Vatican treasures, basilicas, and cathedrals in First World lands will be sold and all proceeds distributed to Third World poor. Under our newly impoverished Church, we will be forced to gather in hovels or grottoes for the celebration of Holy Mass. Finally, we will have a “poor Church” bathed in humility and free of decadence and corruption…

Ding, ding, ding!