“A. The Church has already spoken perfectly on that, it wasn’t necessary to turn back to these issues; neither I talked about swindling, lying or other things on which the Church has a clear doctrine. There’s no need to talk about it, but rather about the positive things that open ways for the kids. Besides, young people know perfectly what is the stance of the Church.”
Everyone isn’t going to get the message, because not everyone is listening.
This is an excellent point!
No one is begrudging you your support group but confessing SSA to the world, loudly and clearly and repeatedly is aiding in desensitizing the issue to society in general and certainly fits with the political aspect in advancing support of the cause. It implies that a great proportion of mankind is disordered with this affliction and this is simply untrue. If I struggle with the temptation of lust it does not matter whether I am gay or straight and should I sin, my judgment will be the same as yours. The propaganda though, is to promote a special understanding to the homosexual as a unique victim. It is a cause celebre cloaked in language to confuse the uninformed.I don’t suggest my struggle is any greater. But I disagree that any inclination to sin should be a private matter for the confessional. I also never said it should be broadcast far and wide, although I wonder why someone would have such a strong objection to someone saying (without any pride at all) “I struggle with such-and-such type of sin.” Surely Mary Magdalene, Paul, and Peter shared their own struggles in the proper contexts, without being a burden to others.
I wonder what you think Jesus means when He told us to live in the light. In my experience, the very best way to fight sin is by regularly confessing my sins to a group of brothers, my men’s group, and experiencing their love for me despite my sin. How can I confess my sin without being open about my temptations? In the book of Acts, people confessed publicly in church. I really think you’re missing a key aspect of the Christian message here.
I’m not denying any of these things. When did I encourage homosexuality to be accepted as the norm?
I think this is the key. The document about not accepting men with SSA into the priesthood was a direct response to the scandal. And that document appears to say that only one type of man – even if that man is sinless – is not allowed to become a priest: a homosexual. Perhaps I am misreading the document. But that’s what it appears to say, and that makes men with SSA feel like second-class citizens.
Not doubt, but how does one tell who is listening and who is hearing what they want to hear? That is problem with something that is a deeply theological issue and pertinent to our times and a 2 line soundbyte.
Well, I’m not advocating a special understanding of gay people as unique victims. Nor am
I’m with you. Trying to hide this propensity to sin is ridiculous and is at least partially responsible for the flourishing “LGBT movement” as it were. Why? Because religious folks either implicitly or explicitly attempted to push people aside who had these struggles. It’s the same idea that people have when it comes to sex-ed for their kids; parents are worried that if the schools teach about sex then their kids are going to want to have sex and go do it!Well, I’m not advocating a special understanding of gay people as unique victims. Nor am
I saying that we should “advance the cause” of sin or throw our brokenness in other people’s faces.
A little openness in the Church is not a revolution. But you have no idea how much even a little openness would help.
Are you aware that you have JUDGED me as judging? I think what Jesus meant by “don’t judge” was don’t condemn someone. Keep in mind that the context was that people were put to death for sins, a lot like how today in the Middle East homosexuals are put to death by Muslims and Sharia Law. It’s a totally different thing than merely saying that homosexual behavior is a sin. What Pope Francis said is like what it says in the Catechism except that the Catechism says more. The Catechism says we should treat homosexuals with love and respect, but it also says that homosexual behavior is gravely disordered. I think Pope Francis most likely said more than was quoted especially since they say it was a long interview.
Very well said. It goes against the liberal narrative they want to foist on everyone though.
Well said. The propaganda is never ending. This one topic demands special concessions based on nothing more than those who scream the loudest.
In fact he said “lobby d’affari” (business lobby)So he did say: "these persons must never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.” (“non si devono emarginare queste persone per questo, devono essere integrate in società”) - saltandlighttv.org/blog/world-youth-day/a-note-on-the-popes-remarks-to-journalists-en-route-to-rome
La Stampa left that part out. Come to think of it, I can’t find it anywhere in the English translation of the CCC either. Its wonderful that Pope Francis was able to clarify that for us.
I love the fact that he thinks a “lobby of greed” (“lobby di avari”) is a matter of greater concern than whether or not someone is gay. Puts things into their proper perspective!
Awesome!
And to me, the way they state this seems accurate.
Thanks. The Left wants to believe that moral truth can change.
I haven’t read the whole thread (and do not have time to read 11 pages)…but presumably you’re talking about openness on the matter of homosexual sin? Just how much more openness on that matter can this world take? What kind of openness are you looking for? And in what way would that openness help you personally or the world as a whole?Well, I’m not advocating a special understanding of gay people as unique victims. Nor am
I saying that we should “advance the cause” of sin or throw our brokenness in other people’s faces.
A little openness in the Church is not a revolution. But you have no idea how much even a little openness would help.
Parents have been given the God-ordained right (and duty) to educate their children about sex in accordance with the moral teaching of the Church. You aren’t suggesting are you that the lobbying efforts of certain pro-gay groups which have infiltrated the education system should really be allowed to teach details (for instance) about homosexual “love” and cross dressing to Christian children.
What are you saying? It is doublespeak to me. When we become enlightened it is a matter between the soul and God as He alone directs it into the path of righteousness. We are to uphold the dignity of the human person as being made in the image and likeness of God and pray for those who struggle that they might overcome their temptations.
Nope, some level of openness about temptation. Everybody knows that teenagers want to fornicate. When the Church tells teens not to fornicate, they don’t tell them to feel ashamed about the thought of sex. They just say, “Don’t do it.”
I’m talking about openness with friends, with members of the Church, about my cross, which includes same-sex attraction. (Of course, it includes other things, too). This openness, personally, has helped me to live a chaste life. When I was hiding, it was MUCH more difficult to be chaste.
“There is so much being written about the gay lobby. I haven’t met anyone in the Vatican yet who has “gay” written on their identity cards. There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying. Lobbies are not good. If a gay person is in eager search of God, who am I to judge them? The Catholic Church teaches that gay people should not be discriminated against; they should be made to feel welcome. Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem and this goes for any type of lobby, business lobbies, political lobbies and Masonic lobbies.”