Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?

[agnes_therese]

And the right wing must accept that that the pope is Catholic too.

I think the Holy Father is going to challenge us all. And rightly so.

And that’s one of the reasons I love him so much.

 

[fix]

And the right wing must accept that that the pope is Catholic too.

I think the Holy Father is going to challenge us all. And rightly so.

I think do accept him. What I see is the left very much wanting to find some sentence from him somewhere that they can say…ah finally… women’s lib and “gay” sex are moral.

 

[Dawnia]

He isn’t saying anything that hasn’t been said before. I just think people are more willing to listen to him. That big smile he wears all the time certainly does help to open ears.

Unfortunately, some people have very selective hearing and will only hear the parts they want to hear.

 

[bzkoss236]

The only thing that the Pope said in regards to homosexuality is that which should already be known by Catholics. Those with SSA should not be treated as second class citizens, but should be treated with respect and love just as you would with anyone else. However, homosexual acts and ideas toward so-called homosexual “marriage” are sinful and should be avoided.

 

[triumphguy]

I think do accept him. What I see is the left very much wanting to find some sentence from him somewhere that they can say…ah finally… women’s lib and “gay” sex are moral.

I’m sure you do from your posts. I wasn’t really commenting on your POV at all.

 

[irishpatrick]

I do wonder what the Holy Father means when he speaks of greater integration of women into the faith. Women likely comprise 70% or more of people working for the Church, so it makes me wonder how much farther that can, or should, go. Also, the Holy Father seems to support keeping girls as altar servers, which also troubles me.

I love the Pope, and feel he is a breath of fresh air very much needed at this time…yet, some of his comments have me scratching my head. Oh well…in the end, I know that Jesus is in control.

 

[fix]

I’m sure you do from your posts. I wasn’t really commenting on your POV at all.

I was commenting on your point though.

 

[fix]

(1) You cannot give up temptations. Temptations are not directly under our control.

I could have worded that better. One is not giving in to a temptation.

(2) I agree that the sacrifices are not objectively comparable, since the one thing is a real good and the other is a counterfeit good. But both are sacrifices.

I can’t see the point you are making? We are talking about giving up a real and true good, not avoiding evil. To call both sacrifices does not do justice to the topic.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

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Discuss the issues, not each other
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[fix]

No, but several people here seem to think that one must sacrifice in giving up heterosexual marriage for Holy Orders to be valid.

I have never heard that before. I would like to see this proven in a document.

I do not think anyone is talking about the validity of the ordination. I think people are pointing out the truth of the matter. Hiding from a bad inclination is not of the same moral weight and type as sacrificing a real good for a higher good.

 

[mathuex08]

I’ve been waiting all day to get on here to see the distress!

Gays?! And Atheists?! IN HEAVEN?!

It’s the end of times OBVIOUSLY.

Thanks for putting these people who think the love of Christ is exclusive to them in their place Pope Francis.

(Edited)

 

[fix]

Unfortunately, yours is a common misunderstanding. Sin is not merely divided into “mortal” and “venial.” Within serious sin (for example, serious sins that fall into the sexual category which you just named), there are indeed greater and lesser.

Fornication violates God’s design for order (covenantal marriage)
Adultery goes one step further because it breaks that existing covenant, grievously wounding the spouse and violating the marriage vows, as well as offending God, as well as bringing in a third person.

However, the sexual acts committed above are not in themselves intrinsically evil; it is their circumstances and conditions which make them grave matter.

In the case of homosexual acts, the acts themselves are intrinsically evil, regardless of circumstance, and regardless of stated “love” for the other, and regardless of any faux legalized arrangement.

There are indeed gradations of sin. This has been explained well by apologist and moral theologian Colin Donovan, who got his degree at the Angelicum in Rome, and who has discussed degrees of sin several times on his own shows.

Very good and never discussed. I think are Americanist mentality informs our moral reasoning more than logic and Church teaching. We mistakenly hold false equality over truth. I think it comes from an emotional appeal more than from right reason.

 

[fix]

I’ve been waiting all day to get on here to see the butthurt LOL!

Gays?! And Atheists?! IN HEAVEN?!

It’s the end of times OBVIOUSLY.

Thanks for putting these fundie blasphemers who think the love of Christ is exclusive to them in their place Pope Francis.

Ha ha. U mad bro?

The problem with this reasoning is that it makes a complex topic so facile and simple minded that the truth of the matter is lost. Such loss has implications for evangelization and immortal souls.

 

[Kevin_B]

The only thing that the Pope said in regards to homosexuality is that which should already be known by Catholics. Those with SSA should not be treated as second class citizens, but should be treated with respect and love just as you would with anyone else. However, homosexual acts and ideas toward so-called homosexual “marriage” are sinful and should be avoided.

“Should be” is the important term here. Considering how many Catholics supported banning homosexuals from the military and the boy scouts, and how many have opposed legislation making it illegal to fire someone because of their sexual preference, I think it’s safe to say many Catholics ignore this command.

 

[irishpatrick]

I’ve been waiting all day to get on here to see the butthurt LOL!

Gays?! And Atheists?! IN HEAVEN?!

It’s the end of times OBVIOUSLY.

Thanks for putting these fundie blasphemers who think the love of Christ is exclusive to them in their place Pope Francis.

Ha ha. U mad bro?

When did anyone claim they have an exclusive on the love of Christ? Catholics have said the same thing as Pope Francis forever. Love the sinner, hate the sin…simple message, but 100% true and accurate.

BTW, before assuming a headline is correct, read the Pope’s entire message.

 

[njlisa]

Here’s the news conference from the National Catholic Reporter’s perspective. The National Catholic Register is not yet reporting the story.

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-homosexuals-who-am-i-judge

 

[RKO]

WHAT??!! The pope says it’s not up to him to pass judgment? Good thing he doesn’t post on CAF!

 

[flightkid]

Something very different from judging someones soul and their actions. He was saying I shall not judge their soul seeking God.

I think its soooo funny the media thinks this is some NEW teaching from the pope or Church lol. The Church has always taught same sex attracted people are Gods children and called to Christ and can be forgiven. The “gay” lifestyle aka sex with others/lust etc NOT “sexual orientation” is what is gravely evil and never condoned. We have to keep it all in context of what he said…the “orientation.” Just like my orientation is being attracted to woman.

Its this simple…BIG difference between the “orientation” (same sex attraction which is not sinful) to the “act” (same sex couples having sexual relations s sinful). Orientation vs Act. Big difference!

Another example…alcoholic having the desire to want to drink. Verse the person in the act getting blasted and drunk being an alcoholic.

 

[mbmb]

The only thing that the Pope said in regards to homosexuality is that which should already be known by Catholics. Those with SSA should not be treated as second class citizens, but should be treated with respect and love just as you would with anyone else. However, homosexual acts and ideas toward so-called homosexual “marriage” are sinful and should be avoided.

I agree with this. I find, sadly, when doing work there is a propensity to “false witness” against people who have characteristics that the homosexual cohort may stereotypically share. Whether this is a guy with a more feminine voice, or a women with short hair, or anything as such people see this as grounds to treat them as lesser; whether subconsciously or consciously I do not know. This degrading treatment can, perhaps, be a sort of subtle false witness in the mind and an immediate assumption of other people’s sins without proper witness. Statistics and generalizations don’t count as good witness. I wear Birkenstocks and flannel as a female and just such a small thing like this can set people off and make them judge you and be mad about you not wearing traditional garms, when, to be honest, as long as I am covered up, comfy and not stinky I see no reason to care more about clothing (except for special events). I also see no reason to make hasty judgement on this sort of superficiality, be it clothing, sexual orientation, voice, hair style. Wait until there is real evidence to judge if some action someone has done is wrong . Many things are between the individual and God, I find it impossible to presume you can know the eternal fate of anyone (except perhaps oneself based on relation with God and belief), especially bearing possible fw… This is how I interpreted what is meant when Pope Francis says to not judge. There is a temptation to generalize with people before actually meeting them and seeing them with the heart instead of just the eyes or the ears you can meet so many wonderful people and have spiritually nourishing relations and conversations you would have never expected when you let down your guard and stop hastily judging.

 

[PaulinVA]

I do not think anyone is talking about the validity of the ordination. I think people are pointing out the truth of the matter. Hiding from a bad inclination is not of the same moral weight and type as sacrificing a real good for a higher good.

True, I guess. But what significance does it hold? If one priest is successfully resisting a bad inclination and another is sacrificing a real good, is one priest better than the other? That’s the part of this discussion that confusses me.