Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’

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Hope_Philomena said:
What is your point? Does it matter which President started what? The ban is considered wrong whether it is enacted under President This or President That.
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Yeah, see that’s not going to work. Had the Christian leaders, immigrant activists groups, foreigners and the media done their homework on this and gone after the Obama Administration in the last six years, they could have saved some face.

But because all of them either gave President Obama, Vice President Biden ect. ect. free passes and even made excuses for them and/or didn’t examine the issues carefully enough NONE of them have a leg to stand on.

Most if not all of this is just a dog and pony show to undermine President Trump.

It is shameful and riddled with scandal.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
For us in America, a few months go by in the blink of an eye. But I can guarantee you, that this is not the case for those trapped in the countries being torn apart as we sit in our cozy living rooms arguing on a forum.
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The question is where was this over the last 8 years? Under Barack Obama and Joe Biden, the USA was at war every single day. That’s never happened before.

And there was nothing but silence from the same people now enraged.

Really, if I were a refugee, I dare say I’d find such hypocrisy infuriating and recognize that these folks don’t care about me----they just want to hurt Donald Trump.
 
usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/churchteachingonimmigrationreform.cfm
The Catholic Catechism instructs the faithful that good government has two duties, both of which must be carried out and neither of which can be ignored. The first duty is to welcome the foreigner out of charity and respect for the human person. Persons have the right to immigrate and thus government must accommodate this right to the greatest extent possible, especially financially blessed nations: “The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.” Catholic Catechism, 2241.
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The second duty is to secure one’s border and enforce the law for the sake of the common good. Sovereign nations have the right to enforce their laws and all persons must respect the legitimate exercise of this right: “Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.” Catholic Catechism, 2241.
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Catholic social teaching is not as one sided on this subject as some on this forum assert.
Countries have the right to secure their borders. Trump may have gone overboard but some vetting of immigrants is prudent.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Yeah, see that’s not going to work. Had the Christian leaders, immigrant activists groups, foreigners and the media done their homework on this and gone after the Obama Administration in the last six years, they could have saved some face.

But because all of them either gave President Obama, Vice President Biden ect. ect. free passes and even made excuses for them and/or didn’t examine the issues carefully enough NONE of them have a leg to stand on.

Most if not all of this is just a dog and pony show to undermine President Trump.

It is shameful and riddled with scandal.
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Stop.

Stop with the conspiracies. Stop with the talk of Obama vs. Trump. Stop, and actually focus on the fact that we are barring endangered lives in war-torn countries. This is happening right now and so many are refusing to comment on the important issue by attempting to distract with irrelevant information, irrelevant “coulda shoulda woulda” type of talk.

Go rant about the anti-Trump rhetoric that you perceive somewhere else.
 
Exiled_Child said:
Yeah, I suspect you’ll probably be proven right on all points, but I’m really just waiting and watching. 🤷 I don’t know. The fact that Trump actually seems to be following through on his campaign promises has me more than a little discombobulated. And I have a strong sense that I won’t be re-combobulating anytime soon. :rolleyes: As far as I’m aware, this has never actually happened in the entire span of my life. Imagine, a President actually following through on what he said he was going to do! Incredible!
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And look at it like this: If there’s another terror attack from refugees or migrants, President Trump cannot be blamed even if he is in charge.
 
ProVobis said:
Maybe but it was seemingly put out in a mean-spirited way. Perhaps it was intended that way, I don’t know
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To add to that, this was oddly implemented on a Friday with little fore-warning, with no gradual phase-in for those who are currently traveling to the US. This applies even to legal residents with a green card! This entire situation is one giant, embarrassing mess.

Denying legal residents the right to enter this country without due process is borderline criminal, and this alone needs to get Trump impeached.
 
SuperLuigi said:
And look at it like this: If there’s another terror attack from refugees or migrants, President Trump cannot be blamed even if he is in charge.
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Oh goody, since you believe in refugee terror attacks then perhaps you can respond to this person’s quote:
And yet in the US not one Terror attack has been perpetrated by refugees or any other nationals of the countries Trump unilaterally banned…
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Funny that.
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Hope_Philomena said:
Stop.

Stop with the conspiracies. Stop with the talk of Obama vs. Trump. Stop, and actually focus on the fact that we are barring endangered lives in war-torn countries. This is happening right now and so many are refusing to comment on the important issue by attempting to distract with irrelevant information, irrelevant “coulda shoulda woulda” type of talk.
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It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s a thoughtful analysis. And as a minority, I see this kind of thinking everyone from religious and secular progressives. I cannot even being to tell you how annoying partisan politics in the USA are.

Really, the left is like a faucet that just got turned on once Trump got sworn in. Anyone who wasn’t criticizing Obama over this has zero credibility, no matter what their title is or what church they belong to.

So again I ask: Where were all these voices and the tears for the last 8 years? Every single day America was at war under this Administration. Rightly or wrongly, it was so. And very few cared.
 
SuperLuigi said:
It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s a thoughtful analysis. And as a minority, I see this kind of thinking everyone from religious and secular progressives. I cannot even being to tell you how annoying partisan politics in the USA are.

Really, the left is like a faucet that just got turned on once Trump got sworn in. Anyone who wasn’t criticizing Obama over this has zero credibility, no matter what their title is or what church they belong to.

So again I ask: Where were all these voices and the tears for the last 8 years? Every single day America was at war under this Administration. Rightly or wrongly, it was so. And very few cared.
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Do you consider the majority of Bishops and The Pope to be “the left”? Because I certainly don’t. What do you make of that?
 
ctb95 said:
Apples to oranges comparison. Obama’s ban was for new visa applicants and only applied to Iraq. Not only that, but there was a specific threat: namely a group of several Iraqi nationals living in the US who were supplying money and weapons to al-Qaida.

Trump’s plan calls for bans on multiple countries because there ‘might’ be terrorists who could enter the country. Furthermore, if a citizen of one of these countries has a green card and is currently out of the country, they cannot re-enter, even if they have a family here. This never happened under Obama.

Two different contexts and completely different scope. I’m not a President Obama fan, BTW.
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There is substantial evidence that ISIS is infilrtrating refugee flows.

But as I said, President Trump has washed his hands of this. If the courts and the ACLU allow people to trickle in and they do attack, not even buzzfeed is going to be able to throw that in this Administration’s face.

Once again, the emotional arguments could be the undoing of so many.

This is why formal policy needs to be logical.

If people really want to help the refugees, I suggest logging off the internet, stepping back from the microphone and going to either a center or to Syria to help.

Otherwise, it’s just words and armchair quarterbacking.
 
SuperLuigi said:
It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s a thoughtful analysis. And as a minority, I see this kind of thinking everyone from religious and secular progressives. I cannot even being to tell you how annoying partisan politics in the USA are.

Really, the left is like a faucet that just got turned on once Trump got sworn in. Anyone who wasn’t criticizing Obama over this has zero credibility, no matter what their title is or what church they belong to.

So again I ask: Where were all these voices and the tears for the last 8 years? Every single day America was at war under this Administration. Rightly or wrongly, it was so. And very few cared.
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I was opposed to Obama’s stances and involvement in war and I’m opposed to Trump’s stances on refugees now. I am no progressive and I am no partisan.

However, what Obama did during his presidency is no justification for what Trump is doing during his.

If you want to play the blame game, go back to President Bush, since he was the reason we were at war to begin with. We can play this game all day, but none of this is justification for what Trump is doing.
 
SuperLuigi said:
And look at it like this: If there’s another terror attack from refugees or migrants, President Trump cannot be blamed even if he is in charge.
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I don’t actually buy into the whole “Trump is racist” talk that’s all over the place in our country, but I also don’t think his motivation is “love your neighbor”. I’m convinced that his sole motivation is to prevent terrorist attacks in the U.S., but I think he’s going about it the wrong way and making a terrible mistake, callously hurting lots of America’s victims in the process. In addition to our personal efforts to always recall the teaching of Christ, it’s also important for us to remember that these people are 100% our responsibility. Our foreign policy deliberately created this human misery and set these forces in motion.
 
ctb95 said:
Denying legal residents the right to enter this country without due process is borderline criminal, and this alone needs to get Trump impeached.
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Signing an executive order is borderline criminal and worthy of impeachment? Some of you are even more unhinged than first thought.
 
I hope people realize that the USA has likely been more welcoming to refugees than any other nation on earth. We typically allow 40,000-50,000 refugees every year, and last year President Obama let in somewhere around 200,000. Also, **Trump’s plan is temporary **and is being done as an effort to find ways to check out the people coming into the USA. After the 90-120 period, immigration bans will be removed.

I don’t think we can say the USA is rejecting those in need–we are simply saying wait 3-4 months so we can get a handle on how to better handle immigration.

Why is that so objectionable?

The Pope is of course 100% on target–as Christians we must help those in need, and the USA does that more than any other country, and we have let millions upon millions of people into the country. Again, why is it so terrible to put a short pause on immigration?
 
ctb95 said:
Denying legal residents the right to enter this country without due process is borderline criminal, and this alone** needs to get Trump impeached**.
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The cry from the left over everything will now become…“He needs to be impeached.”

**I don’t agree with this particular action by Trump **.But please, the impeachment talk started even before he took office.

Yes, there are refugees. Yes, we will be accepting many of them. But it is completely in line with Catholic social teaching to take reasonable actions to make sure we do not accept those that are lawless or have terroristic intentions.

We are called to shelter the homeless. Does that mean that I must open my house to a homeless person who has a history of violence, and endanger my family?
 
I_trust said:
The cry from the left over everything will now become…“He needs to be impeached.”

**I don’t agree with this particular action by Trump **.But please, the impeachment talk started even before he took office.

Yes, there are refugees. Yes, we will be accepting many of them. But it is completely in line with Catholic social teaching to take reasonable actions to make sure we do not accept those that are lawless or have terroristic intentions.

We are called to shelter the homeless. Does that mean that I must open my house to a homeless person who has a history of violence, and endanger my family?
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Clearly, you only read the part of my statement that you bolded.
 
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