L
LiamQ
Guest
My understanding is that James Comey himself stated they can’t vet these people properly.
Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’
- Status
S
Sarcelle
Guest
Okay.
Either we vet them properly or we vet them improperly.
It seems like the those opposing Trump are for the latter option.
C
cathgal
Guest
If you or anyone who agrees with the Pope, then by all mean, invite the homeless people into your home and shelter them for a time being. Is the Christian thing to do is is it not? I’m curious to know how you’d refute this.
W
WonderAndAwe
Guest
Aren’t we supposed to be opposed to all other religions by the virtue of Christianity being the One True Church of Christ?
C
cathgal
Guest
How easy it is to preach the Christian ways at a national level. Now how about preaching it at a domestic level. I’m sure you have seen homeless people out in the street begging for food or money. Have you ever taken any one of them home to feed, clean or shelter them? Just one homeless person only. Have you ever extend your Christian duty to him/her? Where is the hypocrisy?
If not, why?
C
cathgal
Guest
Try putting yourself in the place of a homeless, you know, the people you see out in the street all the time.
C
cathgal
Guest
Might be a threat? As if this nation had not had its share of terrorist attacks. Are the people who were killed by terrorist in this nation not innocent? Are you more concern for the people in foreign land than your homeland? Do they take priority over the citizens of this country? How do you reconcile between foreigners and your countrymen?
This nation has always taken in refugees in the past. Until last several years, we have lived with the consequences of being a good Samaritan. Many innocent lives have been taken. Count yourself fortunate that you’re not one of them. Should we continue to carelessly take in millions of refugees knowing the risk we put ourselves in? That would be stupidity don’t you think?
Jesus tells us to be a good Samaritan, but I’m sure He doesn’t mean for us to be stupid while doing it.
Have the Pope and Bishops always do everything right? Take for example, Amoris Laetitia, do you agree with the Pope regarding communion for divorced and remarried? There are many things the Pope did that are scandalous, so I wouldn’t consider him as the best judge of things.
R
Robyn_p
Guest
Have any terrorists threats on American soil been carried out by refugees? Is there any evidence to support the claim that they are a greater risk than any other group? Please share your evidence. Otherwise yes to ban them indiscriminately is reckless and unjustified.
First of all, no one is advocating carelessly letting refugees in. This is a straw man. There is already a vetting system in place to make sure the refugees coming in pose no threat, and it’s a damn good one at that. There’s a reason not a single terrorist has successfully carried out an attack by infiltrating the refugee process. It’s the hardest and least practical means of entering the U.S. Please read this description of the vetting process to get an idea of what the refugees must go through. It’s by a Methodist pastor who practices immigration law and has worked with the refugee community for twenty years:
patheos.com/blogs/cosmostheinlost/2017/01/26/extreme-vetting-refugee-process/
Second, the facts all indicate that refugees are not a real risk to us. Even the Cato Institute, a conservative foundation, admits this. cato.org/blog/syrian-refugees-dont-pose-serious-security-threat That article breaks down the facts well.
I stand by what I said, the refugees are not a legitimate threat and to refuse to take them in out of irrational fear is hard for me to reconcile with the Gospel.
Pope Francis hasn’t changed anything regarding communion for the divorced and remarried. It’s still the case that being remarried without an annulment is sinful. But it was also already Church teaching that not everyone in an objectively sinful situation in necessarily in mortal sin. And honestly this is a tough pastoral issue and since I’m neither a priest nor divorced I don’t feel it concerns me. So sure I agree with him. Would I have liked him to be a little more clear? Maybe, but nothing he said was wrong.
But I’m sure the thrice divorced and remarried man who refuses to educate himself on the facts and enacts a hastily written order that ends up even keeping green card holders out of the country is a much better judge of things.
So sorry but yeah, given the choice between the Shepherds of the Church and a politician, I’m siding with the Church. This is the exact situation they have the right to speak on and if they believe it is a problem, I’m not willing to risk my soul on it.
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
Yes. Their place also. They are not in competition.
S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
You need to change your username.
G
gracepoole
Guest
G
gracepoole
Guest
Or we acknowledge that they *were *being vetted under Obama. But then, where does that leave us in terms of justifying this ban?
P
PPeterson
Guest
This is also why i stopped driving on highways when i realized i hadnt even paved one road in town myself.
O
OneSheep
Guest
This is a post worth putting forth again, and I thank you.I hear what you’re saying, Randolph. Honestly, I totally do.
I don’t have a family or kids, and I refuse to own a gun, for instance. But if I did have a wife and/or children, I can guarantee you I’d be armed to the teeth. So yes, you have a good point, and I definitely hear what you’re saying. In my life, I am actually very open to having strangers and homeless people crash at my place on a limited basis, and I very often do, but that in no way means that I feel holier-than-thou about it. Because, again, if I had kids I would definitely behave differently. I pick up random hitchhikers occasionally, too, and it’s exactly the same deal: I would never in a million years put a (hypothetical) child or family in that situation. It’s unthinkable. But considering that I’m all alone and about an inch away from being suicidal, I never hesitate to put myself in those situations.The thing about refugees though, is that these are by and large people who are in truly hellish circumstances. I’d like to refer you to a great comment by a CAF member named Rebecca:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14440020#post14440020
If you read those links, it’s pretty plain to see that a “mere 90 day wait” is actually an eternity. We have comfy apartments and paperback potboilers and personal computers and whatnot to occupy us, but there are people facing beheadings, rape gangs, kidnappings, lifelong sexual slavery, and on and on and on. Ninety days for people in that position is life and death, and undoubtedly well beyond psychologically torturous.
Plus there’s the all-too-easily forgettable fact that we’re humans. Meaning, our memories are only very slightly superior to that of the common goldfish. We imagine in our pride and vanity that we always remember the words and ideas of Jesus, but in fact we don’t at all. We have to really honestly struggle and beat ourselves senseless to remember these “simple” truths we’ve been taught. And we have to do it constantly. Which is extremely difficult. It really is best to listen to Francis, because he’s like a shepherd repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly reminding us of who we profess to be.
We have to admit that there is some validity in the “it’s only 90 days” sentiment when stated by fellow believers here. It’s like “why are people making such a big deal about this, since it is only temporary?” Yes, it is unjust to put any brakes in the process when people are suffering such horrors, but self-protection fears are real.
The self-protection concerns are addressed in this thread. Refugees properly vetted have not carried out any terrorist attacks. The concerns that have not been addressed, the elephant in the room, is mistrust of Trump’s plans. Because of Trump’s rhetoric against Muslims during his campaign, people fear that the anti-refugee EO is only the beginning. The fear is that 90 days will become 120, then a year, then undetermined. In addition, there are fears that Trump’s EO is the precursor of other orders that will be closer to the types of practices that occurred in Germany before WWII: labeling, deterioration of rights, banishment, etc.
Donald Trump showing disrespect for “so-called” Judge Robart (and Judge Curiel), and Trump advisor Sebastian Gorka expressing complete dismissal of demonstrators, does nothing to remediate the lack of trust that people now have. Keen strategists in the Trump administration would find it very prudent to win the trust of people, which will not occur with the use of insults.
A
abucs
Guest
Again the pope has not distinguished between the different ways you can help refugees.
The pope does not appear to be leading on this issue or saying anything new but following the policy platform of one side of politics. A politics I consider to be disastrous.
Where is the humble and balanced listening and understanding towards each other that the pope has previously insisted he would like to see?
The pope does not appear to be leading on this issue or saying anything new but following the policy platform of one side of politics. A politics I consider to be disastrous.
Where is the humble and balanced listening and understanding towards each other that the pope has previously insisted he would like to see?
S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
Another attack on the Pope.
Disgraceful.
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
Because I do not have the space for them. I am not equipped to deal with their needs. That is why we need a greater systematic response. It is the subsidiary principle. What cannot be adequately addressed at one level needs to be taken to the next higher level. My city cannot even address the homeless issue. There are guidelines and best practices and regulations about homeless shelters. So dont try forcing a guilt trip on us.
A
abucs
Guest
You are completely right to point this out.
I cannot help but deduce their is massive amounts of tax dollars being made available for people claiming to be refugees and much less being made available to the homeless. This itself is the disgrace.
People chasing tax dollars and being dependent on them is not a good placed for anyone to be.
Jesus went out to his own people and helped the poor and he didn’t chase tax dollars to do so.
:sad_yes:
Nor did he want us to go chasing the coinage of Caesar.
I believe there is too much of this going on in our church at many different levels and in very many circumstances.
The church was not built that way.
The church will not be respected that way.
The church will not survive that way.
- Status