Pope Francis's Letter 0f 20 August 2018

[phil19034]

thank you! I just fixed it

 

[TheLittleLady]

Our God is a God of forgivness.

 

[Ioannes_L]

But He’s also a judge.

 

[JanetF]

What we want to see are concrete plans of action. Real steps, even controversial ones, that would, if necessary, overhaul the entire clerical structure of the Church that is not of divine institution. I don’t care what it is: more-intense-than-usual psychological profiling, profiling based on actions (effete men do not get admitted to the seminary); abolition of Latin church celibacy; ordination of knowledgeable married laymen for non-pastoral positions, just to say Mass and absolve…I don’t know. I’m not saying any of these are good or bad ideas, but SOMETHING beyond “thoughts and prayers” and “I feel your pain” and “mea culpa.” Something drastic. Something concrete. Something controversial.

Are you aware of what has been put into place in the church in the US since the early aughts? Changes have been made since the abuse scandal first came to light.

 

[porthos11]

porthos11:

What we want to see are concrete plans of action. Real steps, even controversial ones, that would, if necessary, overhaul the entire clerical structure of the Church that is not of divine institution. I don’t care what it is: more-intense-than-usual psychological profiling, profiling based on actions (effete men do not get admitted to the seminary); abolition of Latin church celibacy; ordination of knowledgeable married laymen for non-pastoral positions, just to say Mass and absolve…I don’t know. I’m not saying any of these are good or bad ideas, but SOMETHING beyond “thoughts and prayers” and “I feel your pain” and “mea culpa.” Something drastic. Something concrete. Something controversial.

Are you aware of what has been put into place in the church in the US since the early aughts? Changes have been made since the abuse scandal first came to light.

No, and obviously, whatever it is isn’t working.

Not good enough. Not good enough.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

I have a feeling you didn’t do any research.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

Did you somehow mysteriously manage to not see all the reforms that Janet mentioned?

 

[SeriousQuestion]

These are mostly old accusations that took place while these reforms didn’t exist.

 

[JanetF]

No, and obviously, whatever it is isn’t working.

Except that it is working…do some research.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

You do realize most of these accusations are old and the priests are deceased. Plus the new implications are working.

 

[joeybaggz]

And as I said in the other thread on this topic, it’s all just words. What is changing?

Well what do you want Francis to do, mount a white charger, line up the clergy, and then go lopping off heads? Your cynicism, is a simple vain way of saying, you really don’t want to be any part of the solution.

 

[Hodos]

Well what do you want Francis to do, mount a white charger, line up the clergy, and then go lopping off heads? Your cynicism, is a simple vain way of saying, you really don’t want to be any part of the solution.

To be fair, I don’t think this to be cynicism. This has been an issue in the Church for some time now, and the full impact of what was going on for years is only now being brought to light. While I agree that a Papal letter to the congregants is not the place to issue policy statements, it is not unfair to ask, “What is the Church doing in light of these abuses?” Its a fair question that the Pope does owe an answer to eventually.

 

[joeybaggz]

Are you aware of what has been put into place in the church in the US since the early aughts? Changes have been made since the abuse scandal first came to light.

No, and obviously, whatever it is isn’t working.
Not good enough. Not good enough.

Your reply to Janet reveals an ignorant and cynical attitude of self righteous angst. These abuses happened in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90’s. Janet referred to the years after the Dallas conference when the bishops got together to combat this crime. If these instances of abuse were happening in the last 10 years, I’d agree with your cynical statement. You really need to be informed about what has taken place in the last fifteen years since this problem was revealed in the late 90’s and early aughts (00).

If there is a problem, your attitude is part of it, not part of the solution.

 

[joeybaggz]

joeybaggz:

Well what do you want Francis to do, mount a white charger, line up the clergy, and then go lopping off heads? Your cynicism, is a simple vain way of saying, you really don’t want to be any part of the solution.

To be fair, I don’t think this to be cynicism. This has been an issue in the Church for some time now, and the full impact of what was going on for years is only now being brought to light. While I agree that a Papal letter to the congregants is not the place to issue policy statements, it is not unfair to ask, “What is the Church doing in light of these abuses?” Its a fair question that the Pope does owe an answer to eventually.

Suggest you see the post below yours. This problem has been fully addressed since the Dallas Conference in 2002 where the bishops put in place measures to insure this never occurs again. These current bishops are not the ones who spent time covering up and making very poor judgments of these priests in 1965 or 1981. Again, your ignorance is indicative of someone shooting from the hip without knowing what you are talking about.

 

[joeybaggz]

Elf01:

Good measures. I would also excommunicate the abusers reserved to the Holy See and at least laicise those who covered up the abuse, possibly excommunicating them too.

I agree… any clergy who sexual abuses another person (child or adult) should be PUBLICLY excommunicated by his bishop and any bishop who commits sexual abuse or covers it up should be PUBLICLY excommunicated by the Pope.

I couldn’t agree more Elf and Phil. Only problem is, many, if not most, of the priests and bishops who are culpable in these situations, ARE ALREADY DEAD! Now unless you want to do what that pope who dug up his predecessor, excommunicated him, and threw his corpse in the river, I guess you and I will have to be satisfied venting our frustration on CAF forums.

 

[Hodos]

I would disagree there. The report itself says that some of the offenders were not reported until 2009. Additionally, many of the issues within the seminaries and the clergy are still prevalent. Just as an example, just this year you had a cardinal arrested for possession of child pornography. This is an issue that will take quite some time to address. Understand, my motive for keeping tabs on these things is that I want the Church to be holy and pure as the bride of Christ. My intention is not to kick the Church while she is down.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Well what do you want Francis to do, mount a white charger, line up the clergy, and then go lopping off heads? Your cynicism, is a simple vain way of saying, you really don’t want to be any part of the solution.

In a Church where clericalism reigns, as a layperson I can’t be part of the solution.

I can try to push for change by choosing to volunteer or not, by choosing to donate or not, by choosing to show up at Mass or not. But that’s about it.

Since Francis just came out against capital punishment, I won’t suggest he should lop off heads. Accepting mass resignations from the bishops would be a good start.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

Most of the offenders were probably dead by then.

 

[Hodos]

That may be, but does that excuse the diocese from culpability? I would say no. Again, to @SuscipeMeDomine’s point, there is cause for righteous indignation here. Personally, I like what Pope Francis stated in his letter. It indicated that repentance is the responsibility of the Church right now. I think he is admirable in accepting culpability. That is where repentance begins.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

The victims were probably part of the diocese. You need to be more specific on who you are talking about. Reporting a dead person is probably not a priority.