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Elf01
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Expanding that to everywhere should happen.
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pnewton
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Good point.
Does anyone in the US live in a diocese that has not complied with the Dallas Charter or have a program like Virtus?
Does anyone in the US live in a diocese that has not complied with the Dallas Charter or have a program like Virtus?
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Chris-Wa1
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I’m curious what people think as to why the clergy sexual abuse problem became so widespread over the decades. Why did this happen? Looking for some reasons other than just the idea that Satan is behind it. I have some thoughts but am curious as to what others think.
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fin
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Yeah. Zero tolerance my foot. They are all just words. If that is the case, why is Wuerl’s resugnation still not accepted, which was submitted two years ago?
I also feel that parents should make it in sich a way that there is no window of opportunity for percerts to abuse their children, by not leaving them alone with other adults. Have to be screened very well.
We could create all the programs and policies we want, but is useless if people are not going to follow them.
I also feel that parents should make it in sich a way that there is no window of opportunity for percerts to abuse their children, by not leaving them alone with other adults. Have to be screened very well.
We could create all the programs and policies we want, but is useless if people are not going to follow them.
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graciew
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Well,it hurts a lot to know that also parents or family members fall into this category…it is unexplainable…What can one say? It so incomprehensible.Why did this happen?
.It must come before entering a seminary. Pedophilia as a preceeding deviation,illness or whatever it is, but so damaging and sinister.
Given the persons I know suffered abuse and their ages ,not from clergy but relatives or persons whom the family trusted,I would say it has probably always happened but a much more open disposition to disclose it and advances in communication technology makes it more feasible to bring it to light for us to know today.
That paired with much more focus on children,and raising their voices and their needs. And more awareness perhaps.
But pedophilia still happens today,under the roof of a family, here and now. It is beyond words…
That the voice of the voiceless be heard,a mission.
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Chris-Wa1
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In the case of priests as abusers, though, I don’t necessarily think it’s unexplainable. In the report from the last big scandal, 81% of the cases involved priests abusing males, mostly teens. I don’t know about the current scandal in Pennsylvania, but I would not at all be surprised if the stats were about the same. What does that tell us?
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graciew
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That if a predator wants young men,he will probably go to a seminary, to a sports team,to any male available environment.
If a.predator tends to. children,he will go to a.school, a kindergarten,a kids team and so on.
And if he tends to young ladies,he will tend to go towards where they are available.
Or he will manage to get them.
And this is where it hurts to think that even if they are screened and kept outside a seminary,or a school,or a sports team,they will still be out there.
So it isn’t t about cleaning “the house” only. It is a beginning,but not the end of it. Kids are kids wherever they may be and deserve our protection .
I find this a rather basic conclusion but I am no expert.
If a.predator tends to. children,he will go to a.school, a kindergarten,a kids team and so on.
And if he tends to young ladies,he will tend to go towards where they are available.
Or he will manage to get them.
And this is where it hurts to think that even if they are screened and kept outside a seminary,or a school,or a sports team,they will still be out there.
So it isn’t t about cleaning “the house” only. It is a beginning,but not the end of it. Kids are kids wherever they may be and deserve our protection .
I find this a rather basic conclusion but I am no expert.
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Chris-Wa1
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Yes I understand what you are saying, but you are speaking in a very general sense. I’m trying to zero in on the problem going on specifically with priests. Given that an overwhelming number of the abuse cases (81%) where perpetrated against males, mostly in their teens, what we have is not as much a problem with pedophilia, but much more so a problem of homosexuality in the priesthood.
A couple of very obvious points to make here: 1) priests swear a vow of celibacy, and 2) the Catholic Church teaches, and has always taught, that the homosexual act is intrinsically disordered. Yet somehow many homosexual men managed to enter the priesthood and then acted on their desires against minors, violating their vow of celibacy while engaging in homosexual acts (which are condemned by the Church), and doing it all in a criminal manner by abusing minors. This horrible scandal has caused terrible harm to thousands of victims and the Church. Pope Benedict dealt with the first abuse scandal by, among other things, tightening the evaluation process for seminarians to restrict men with homosexual tendencies from becoming preists, so clearly he thought this was a problem. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done. The current scandal, like the first one in the early 2000’s, is mostly cases from decades ago before these policies were put into place. I’m certain there will be more ahead in other diocese as more investigations are launched.
Hopefully the changes and safeguards put into the system over the last 15 years or so will prevent those kinds of numbers from happening now or in the future. Only then will we know if they worked.
A couple of very obvious points to make here: 1) priests swear a vow of celibacy, and 2) the Catholic Church teaches, and has always taught, that the homosexual act is intrinsically disordered. Yet somehow many homosexual men managed to enter the priesthood and then acted on their desires against minors, violating their vow of celibacy while engaging in homosexual acts (which are condemned by the Church), and doing it all in a criminal manner by abusing minors. This horrible scandal has caused terrible harm to thousands of victims and the Church. Pope Benedict dealt with the first abuse scandal by, among other things, tightening the evaluation process for seminarians to restrict men with homosexual tendencies from becoming preists, so clearly he thought this was a problem. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done. The current scandal, like the first one in the early 2000’s, is mostly cases from decades ago before these policies were put into place. I’m certain there will be more ahead in other diocese as more investigations are launched.
Hopefully the changes and safeguards put into the system over the last 15 years or so will prevent those kinds of numbers from happening now or in the future. Only then will we know if they worked.
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graciew
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A.problem yes but not a blanket statement as you present it, I believePope Benedict dealt with the first abuse scandal by, among other things, tightening the evaluation process for seminarians to restrict men with homosexual tendencies from becoming preists, so clearly he thought this was a problem
Again,I find it uncomfortable to be explaining something I am no expert in,but at least let us read carefully together. That,we can both do.
Here is Pope Benedict. He makes distinctions.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html
And Pope Francis has said about the same,and that in case of the minimum doubt ,please refrain from allowing entry to the seminary.
Here is a source in English.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/05/24/pope-doesnt-want-practicing-gays-in-seminaries-reports-say/
It seems important then that this assessment be made by seasoned qualified persons/ professionals at admission level and beyond.
Not my case.
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Chris-Wa1
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From those two sources, it’s pretty clear the Church does not want homosexuals to become priests, specifically men with strong tendencies and obviously ones practicing the lifestyle.
The problem was not only with certain individuals coming to the seminaries, but also certain seminaries themselves, seminaries that encouraged and enabled the homosexual lifestyle. I read a book a couple years ago about the scandal of these seminaries that became infamous for kicking out heterosexual men who were loyal to the Pope, believed and practiced the norms and laws of the Church, etc, in favor of gay men who openly rejected the teachings of the church not only in sexual morality, but in many other areas as well. It was as if whomever was running these seminaries were hell bent on changing the Church by in essence changing the priesthood. Very scary, but it did happen. I don’t know what became of those seminaries, but clearly they did a great deal of damage to the priesthood and the Church. I can only hope that the Church eventually closed them down or replaced their staff with people loyal to Rome and the precepts of the Church.
The problem was not only with certain individuals coming to the seminaries, but also certain seminaries themselves, seminaries that encouraged and enabled the homosexual lifestyle. I read a book a couple years ago about the scandal of these seminaries that became infamous for kicking out heterosexual men who were loyal to the Pope, believed and practiced the norms and laws of the Church, etc, in favor of gay men who openly rejected the teachings of the church not only in sexual morality, but in many other areas as well. It was as if whomever was running these seminaries were hell bent on changing the Church by in essence changing the priesthood. Very scary, but it did happen. I don’t know what became of those seminaries, but clearly they did a great deal of damage to the priesthood and the Church. I can only hope that the Church eventually closed them down or replaced their staff with people loyal to Rome and the precepts of the Church.
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graciew
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Let us hope so …and pray that if it isn’t so,that they come to light soon and once and for all.. I can only hope that the Church eventually closed them down or replaced their staff with people loyal to Rome and the precepts of the Church.
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Rahn
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Lord Jesus, help us!
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pnewton
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St. Paul might have tweeted something similar.
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1-2)
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come. The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
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