Pope: God sent his son to show mercy to sinners, not punish them

[JosieN]

Why Christians and Muslims Worship Different Gods

Everyone should read this!

 

[ringil]

Thus, since it does not appear to be likely that they are the same God, I do not think you will ever get the same standards for both.

The Church has stated officially in the CCC that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians and Jews.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In these passages from the New Testament in the Bible, it does not appear that way.

Rom 12:19

" Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”"

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 3: 11-12

“I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand. He will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

God who is wrathful was the mindset of the culture and the authors wrote in that same mindset,

Understanding God’s mercy requires accepting that while we were yet still sinners, God came into our world in Jesus Christ. Although he was Divine, He took on the nature of mere mortals. He lived and suffered what mortals suffer. He then offered Himself in sacrifice for our sins.

If this isn’t an example of a merciful God for you, then nothing you or I quote from Scripture will help.

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.

Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:7-8

Far different from a tyrannical God who is keeping a list of our faults in order to torture us for eternity.

Jim

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Are you certain the God they believe in is the same God that created us? .

Yes. I believe it as a religious scholar and as a Christian. And I also know that your Church believes it too.

 

[JosieN]

God who is wrathful was the mindset of the culture and the authors wrote in that same mindset,

Understanding God’s mercy requires accepting that while we were yet still sinners, God came into our world in Jesus Christ. Although he was Divine, He took on the nature of mere mortals. He lived and suffered what mortals suffer. He then offered Himself in sacrifice for our sins.

If this isn’t an example of a merciful God for you, then nothing you or I quote from Scripture will help.

Far different from a tyrannical God who is keeping a list of our faults in order to torture us for eternity.

Jim

I did not say there is a tyrannical God keeping a list to torture us, but if a person denies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and they do not ask for His forgiveness, and they are not sorry for their sins, where do you think their soul will go?

1 Corinthians Chapter 6

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

If they do not inherit the kingdom of God, and they reject the teachings of Christ and His forgiveness, where does their soul go?

Here is what the CCC says

IV. Hell

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."610 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.611 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. **Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”**615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

My reply was to point out the truth as it has been taught to us for 2000 years or more.

God loves us, I know that, that is why he sent His Son and we know Jesus loves us because of His sacrifice, but we need to obey God’s laws and commandments and believe in His Son, or we will not inherit heaven . The CCC teaching is that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”

I did not make this up. It is what Catholics and Christians have believed for centuries.

 

[JosieN]

Yes. I believe it as a religious scholar and as a Christian. And I also know that your Church believes it too.

The Catholic Catechism says this about the Muslim faith.

CCC 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

It says they profess to hold the faith of Abraham, it does not say they have the same faith. Their beliefs are quite different. Many of the stories surrounding Abraham and those who came after him, have been changed in a way that is not like our Bible and our beliefs. Also, it does not say they adore the same merciful God, it says they adore the one merciful God. Yes they believe in one merciful God who will judge on the last day, but it is not the same merciful God we believe in. Our God has three persons, their’s does not include the Son, so it is not the same God. How can it be? They are different, logically that means they are not the same.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

JosieN

If they do not inherit the kingdom of God, and they reject the teachings of Christ and His forgiveness, where does their soul go?

That’s for God to judge and a lot depends on how much God revealed Himself to that person.

Just telling a person who Jesus is, isn’t enough. Revelation must come from Jesus Himself, however that may happen.

Faith is a gift, it doesn’t come from ourselves, but from God.

Pope Francis is speaking on how God is merciful and calling sinners to seek His mercy.

Telling sinners they’re going to hell does little if they have not experienced God’s love through the gift of Faith.

Jim

 

[philipl]

Boy, the Pope is on a roll this week !

Jim

I have a friend who believes in Christ and God, doesn’t believe in any faith. He says he will go to heaven no matter what he does as God has already forgiven him since we are all sinners and he has accepted christ as his savior. Sound to me this is what the Pope is trying to say. God’s is merciful and we should worry so much about punishment.

 

[JimG]

If everyone is going to heaven anyway, what was the point of Christ establishing his Church, of sending out the Apostles to baptize all nations?

 

[JosieN]

JosieN

That’s for God to judge and a lot depends on how much God revealed Himself to that person.

Just telling a person who Jesus is, isn’t enough. Revelation must come from Jesus Himself, however that may happen.

Faith is a gift, it doesn’t come from ourselves, but from God.

Pope Francis is speaking on how God is merciful and calling sinners to seek His mercy.

Telling sinners they’re going to hell does little if they have not experienced God’s love through the gift of Faith.

Jim

Then may I ask you what is it that we are seeking God’s mercy for? I believe it is for our salvation. What are we being saved from? I believe it is eternal punishment. There is no need for God’s mercy if there is no punishment.

I believe we are to repent and believe in God’s Son Jesus Christ for salvation, and be sorry for our sins, and try not to sin again, then we ask for God’s mercy on our soul so it will be saved from the eternal fires of hell. Then Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will give us the graces needed to mend our hearts and souls, and this will lead us to salvation.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

JosieN

Then may I ask you what is it that we are seeking God’s mercy for?

For forgiveness in what we have failed to do, or what we have done.

I believe it is for our salvation. What are we being saved from? I believe it is eternal punishment. There is no need for God’s mercy if there is no punishment.

We’re being saved from our sins, which will result in our separation from God, which is punishment.

However, God in His mercy, brought us salvation through Jesus Christ, while we were yet still sinners.

That is God’s mercy.

I believe we are to repent and believe in God’s Son Jesus Christ for salvation, and be sorry for our sins, and try not to sin again, then we ask for God’s mercy on our soul so it will be saved from the eternal fires of hell. Then Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will give us the graces needed to mend our hearts and souls, and this will lead us to salvation.

The Greek word for repent in the New Testament is “metanoeo” which means “to change one’s mind.”

Its turning away from sin and turning away from the way we think and choosing to follow Jesus by following His two commandments, i.e. love God with our entire being and love our neighbor.

Salvation isn’t about those who have the most will power, its mystical. The mystery only comes to our reality as we grow in our relationship with Jesus.

The Church provides the tools for developing this relationship, but its not exclusive, for this would be placing a limit on God’s mercy and making man’s rules as having higher authority.

As a philosopher wrote, “freedom isn’t about having the privilege of choosing between good and evil, its the ability to choose only good.”

When we repent, we seek to follow God who alone has the ability to choose only good.
What He choose for us, can only be good.

This is the essence of Pope Francis message.

It upsets those and causes division, just as Jesus said it would in the last two Sunday’s Gospels.

Jim

 

[JosieN]

I have a friend who believes in Christ and God, doesn’t believe in any faith. He says he will go to heaven no matter what he does as God has already forgiven him since we are all sinners and he has accepted christ as his savior. Sound to me this is what the Pope is trying to say. God’s is merciful and we should worry so much about punishment.

So what your friend is saying is that for 2000 years of Christianity the teachings taught to us through the Bible, the Catholic Catechism, the apostles, and the saints all got it wrong. It is like he believes he has a get out of hell for free card, and sins do not matter anymore. Interesting!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Through guidance of the Holy Spirit, Christianity has evolved spiritually over the centuries.

We have a better understanding of what Jesus taught and how God revealed Himself through His saints.

If the Church had not evolved, she would be stuck in the Middle Ages like the Taliban in Islam.

We’d be burning heretics and persecuting non-Catholics.

Pope Francis is teaching with the authority given by Jesus, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

It’s why those with poor rigid religion, dislike his message.

Jim

 

[JosieN]

Through guidance of the Holy Spirit, Christianity has evolved spiritually over the centuries.

We have a better understanding of what Jesus taught and how God revealed Himself through His saints.

If the Church had not evolved, she would be stuck in the Middle Ages like the Taliban in Islam.

We’d be burning heretics and persecuting non-Catholics.

Pope Francis is teaching with the authority given by Jesus, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

It’s why those with poor rigid religion, dislike his message.

Jim

I am still learning, and do not profess to know everything, but I do think we have left out sin and punishment in most of the newer evolved spirituality teachings. If you read the Bible, it did not leave it out. Maybe some who dislike it, have been reading the Bible and spiritual books, saying their prayers, obeying God’s laws etc. and have enough knowledge to know the difference between evolved spiritually and truth.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am still learning, and do not profess to know everything, but I do think we have left out sin and punishment in most of the newer evolved spirituality teachings. If you read the Bible, it did not leave it out. Maybe some who dislike it, have been reading the Bible and spiritual books, saying their prayers, obeying God’s laws etc. and have enough knowledge to know the difference between evolved spiritually and truth.

What’s more important, God’s punishment or his love ?

Jim

 

[JosieN]

What’s more important, God’s punishment or his love ?

Jim

If you sin and continue to reject God and disobey God’s laws, He will love you, but you will be separated, not because of Him wanting to punish you, but because of your choice. The Catholic Catechism says this:

II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272

The way I see it God’s love is beyond words, humans cannot describe it accurately enough. His love makes people give their lives up for Him, it is this great. But there is the other side, the lies, the deceit and the false promises made to humans by the father of lies. What will happen to those who believe the lies of the devil who tempts us to sin? He does not want people to know about hell and punishment as this would stop us from sinning, and is part of the temptation. When their life is over it will be too late.

In my opinion, it is the choices we make that bring us closer to God’s love and you cannot irrevocably reject God and His reign without consequences. It is in this life we are given the choice to choose Him and HIs love, but it must be through His Son Jesus Christ as this is why He came into this world.

I do not even know how to answer your question as I am not sure what you are getting at, God’s love is important, but by avoiding punishment by not sinning against Him I will be closer to His love, so both are important for me.

 

[ringil]

and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

Josie, the CCC states clearly that Muslims worship the same God as we and the Jews.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If you sin and continue to reject God and disobey God’s laws, He will love you, but you will be separated, not because of Him wanting to punish you, but because of your choice. The Catholic Catechism says this:

You didn’t answer the question.

What is more important, God’s love or His punishment ?

Jim

 

[JosieN]

You didn’t answer the question.

What is more important, God’s love or His punishment ?

Jim

There is no one or the other, because it is all connected by love, love that is given and love that cannot exist for those who have rejected God and the saving graces of His Son.

What is most important to me is my love for God, I want God to love me too, but if I fail on my part by not obeying His commandments or accepting His Son as my Lord and Savior, then I have failed in my love for Him, and there is a place called hell, where you are separated from God’s love for all eternity and that is your punishment.

The children of Fatima were given a vision of hell, and they described as a fire burning, other saints have had visions also and gave the same description. I believe them as I know they are saints and would not lie to us. Jesus Christ came to this world to save us from the fires of hell and because of God’s Son and His sacrifice I can be forgiven if I am sorry for my sins and ask for His mercy and forgiveness, and this brings me closer to His love and eternal life in heaven with Jesus.

Now I will ask you, what is more important God’s love or the punishment given to those who reject Him and His Son and His teachings? If you choose God’s love then you also choose the punishment as equally important, as this is separation from His love for all eternity. If God’s love is this important to you, you will not want to be separated from it would you?

 

[JosieN]

Josie, the CCC states clearly that Muslims worship the same God as we and the Jews.

I wouldn’t describe it as clear. He is my answer to this from a previous post I made on here.
I am repeating it for you.

The Catholic Catechism says this about the Muslim faith.

CCC 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

It says they profess to hold the faith of Abraham, it does not say they have the same faith. Their beliefs are quite different. Many of the stories surrounding Abraham and those who came after him, have been changed in a way that is not like our Bible and our beliefs. Also, it does not say they adore the same merciful God, it says they adore the one merciful God. Yes they believe in one merciful God who will judge on the last day, but it is not the same merciful God we believe in. Our God has three persons, their’s does not include the Son, so it is not the same God. How can it be? They are different, logically that means they are not the same.

Also read this explanation as to why they are not the same, I copied and pasted this part of the article for you to read, the rest is in the link below.

While the Christian Bible (“the speech of God”) describes the Incarnation of the Son of God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, as well as the Crucifixion and death of Jesus, the Quran (“forged by Allah”) denies the Holy Trinity and Fatherhood of God, rejects the notion of Jesus as the Son of God, claims that Christ didn’t actually die on the cross, and refers to events in the life of Mary that are found nowhere in Christian Scripture or Tradition. If both respective religions view their sacred text as the inspired word of God, then the above references prove that they are directly contradictory. Only one can be true. God could not have sent Jesus Christ, His only Son, into the world to die on the Cross while also sending Jesus (who was not His Son) as a prophet who didn’t actually die on the Cross.

crisismagazine.com/2016/christians-muslims-worship-different-gods

Where does it say in the CCC the Jews worship the same God? I have not read that part yet.