Pope has immunity in abuse trials: Vatican

[irishpatrick]

*VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Pope Benedict, accused by victims’ lawyers of being ultimately responsible for a cover-up of sexual abuse of children by priests, cannot be called to testify at any trial because he has immunity as a head of state, a top Vatican legal official said on Thursday.

The interview with Giuseppe dalla Torre, head of the Vatican’s tribunal, was published in Italy’s Corriere della Sera newspaper as Pope Benedict began Holy Thursday services in St Peter’s Basilica and Catholics marked the most solemn week of the liturgical calendar, culminating on Sunday in Easter Day.

The pope did not refer in his sermon to the crisis of confidence sweeping the Church as almost daily revelations surface of sexual abuse of children in the past, accompanied by allegations of a cover-up.*

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100401/ts_nm/us_pope_abuse

---

Is it just me, or does it seem that the dangers for our Holy Father’s safety is beginning to grow? I recall some prophecies that state in a future time the Pope will be driven from Rome and into exhile, where he will be killed. I cannot recall if those were approved prophecies or not, so it might not even be legitimate to bring that up, it is just that I pray for the Pope’s safety in all this because it seems an awful lot of people want to blame him first.

 

[glencora63]

**Why doesn’t the Holy Father call a council of all the Cardinals and Bishops to deal with this WORLDWIDE CRISIS??!! It is PAST TIME to ADDRESS THIS SCANDAL! ALL priests and nuns involved with physical or sexual abuse should be removed from ministry and prosecuted by the legal system. This is HORRIBLE! I don’t think the Vatican realizes the seriousness of the CRISIS. It is not simply an American problem, but a WORLD WIDE PROBLEM!! It undermines any authority the Church has on moral issues. NO ONE takes the CHURCH SERIOUSLY! The Church CANNOT EFFECTIVELY LEAD or PREACH the GOSPEL without a thorough cleansing. Even if it means losing hundreds or thousands of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Nuns; it must be done, NOW! Roman Catholics should withhold ALL tithes, until a council is convened and the guilty removed and prosecuted **

 

[irishpatrick]

**Why doesn’t the Holy Father call a council of all the Cardinals and Bishops to deal with this WORLDWIDE CRISIS??!! It is PAST TIME to ADDRESS THIS SCANDAL! ALL priests and nuns involved with physical or sexual abuse should be removed from ministry and prosecuted by the legal system. This is HORRIBLE! I don’t think the Vatican realizes the seriousness of the CRISIS. It is not simply an American problem, but a WORLD WIDE PROBLEM!! It undermines any authority the Church has on moral issues. NO ONE takes the CHURCH SERIOUSLY! The Church CANNOT EFFECTIVELY LEAD or PREACH the GOSPEL without a thorough cleansing. Even if it means losing hundreds or thousands of Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Nuns; it must be done, NOW! Roman Catholics should withhold ALL tithes, until a council is convened and the guilty removed and prosecuted **

I do not know when the abuse peaked in other countries, yet in the USA the peak abuse hit around 1980 (30 years ago) and has not dropped to well below one-percent, well below.

Go here:

jfpblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/some-rational-perspective-regarding-catholic-priests-sexual-abuse/

The truth is the Church (at least in hte USA) has worked on this problem for a very long time, as proven by the amazing drop in abuse claims since the early to mid-90s.

I suspect something similar is going on in other nations…though I have not studied those areas yet. In the end, it could be that the Church knows it has already addressed this horrible problem.

Yet, my question is: do you not believe that our Pope’s safety is in question?

 

[glencora63]

The leadership is protecting itself because many men in the Vatican are guilty of sexual abuse! The numbers probably run in the millions of victims and thousands of clergy/nuns through the centuries. A council needs to be called with full disclosure, defrocking, and legal prosecution. This crisis is not going to evaporate. This is not the Middle Ages where people are helpless and frightened into silence. Catholics worldwide need to withhold ALL funding, until a Holy Council is convened!

 

[irishpatrick]

The leadership is protecting itself because many men in the Vatican are guilty of sexual abuse! The numbers probably run in the millions of victims and thousands of clergy/nuns through the centuries. A council needs to be called with full disclosure, defrocking, and legal prosecution. This crisis is not going to evaporate. This is not the Middle Ages where people are helpless and frightened into silence. Catholics worldwide need to withhold ALL funding, until a Holy Council is convened!

Thanks for answering my question.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Woah…let’s hang on a minute. Throwing out random numbers is how rumors get started…millions? One child being abused is too many, but let’s be careful of throwing around random numbers, and stats. I am saddened about the abuse cases as well…I do not think that people who had anything to do with the actual abuse, or covering up of it all, if they are alive today, should be in the clergy. Regardless if they confessed, they shouldn’t be permitted to hold positions within the clergy, if they commited crimes against children. That goes without saying. I agree there. At the same time, we must show forgiveness and mercy, because that is what CHRIST expects of us. But, let’s wait and see…our Pope will do the just and right thing…it just might take some time. Let’s have faith in him…and keep praying. *

 

[canadianguy1143]

*VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Pope Benedict, accused by victims’ lawyers of being ultimately responsible for a cover-up of sexual abuse of children by priests, cannot be called to testify at any trial because he has immunity as a head of state, a top Vatican legal official said on Thursday.

The interview with Giuseppe dalla Torre, head of the Vatican’s tribunal, was published in Italy’s Corriere della Sera newspaper as Pope Benedict began Holy Thursday services in St Peter’s Basilica and Catholics marked the most solemn week of the liturgical calendar, culminating on Sunday in Easter Day.

The pope did not refer in his sermon to the crisis of confidence sweeping the Church as almost daily revelations surface of sexual abuse of children in the past, accompanied by allegations of a cover-up.*

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100401/ts_nm/us_pope_abuse

---

Is it just me, or does it seem that the dangers for our Holy Father’s safety is beginning to grow? I recall some prophecies that state in a future time the Pope will be driven from Rome and into exhile, where he will be killed. I cannot recall if those were approved prophecies or not, so it might not even be legitimate to bring that up, it is just that I pray for the Pope’s safety in all this because it seems an awful lot of people want to blame him first.

I wish to categorically state that I don’t believe that Pope Benedict is guilty of being responsible for the problems that are besetting the Church now.

However, the above mentioned headlines do not help him either. If a Pope were guilty of such charges then of course he should be held responsible and being a head of state is irrelevant.

I cite, Slobodan Milošević. He was head of state for Serbia. Where is he now?

 

[irishpatrick]

I wish to categorically state that I don’t believe that Pope Benedict is guilty of being responsible for the problems that are besetting the Church now.

However, the above mentioned headlines do not help him either. If a Pope were guilty of such charges then of course he should be held responsible and being a head of state is irrelevant.

I cite, Slobodan Milošević. He was head of state for Serbia. Where is he now?

I agree, which is why I pray for the Pope’s safety. There seems to be a lynch-mob mentality growing and it is aim largely at the Pope. I worry for him.

 

[Another_Mary]

Is it just me, or does it seem that the dangers for our Holy Father’s safety is beginning to grow? I recall some prophecies that state in a future time the Pope will be driven from Rome and into exhile, where he will be killed.

I have been rereading about the third secret of Fatima.

Here it is from the Vatican website: Link

It has been thought that it foretold of the attempt on John Paul II’s life. I am wondering if that was just the beginning, since it also involved “Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.”

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917.

I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

 

[tweetymom]

Why if nothing to hide?

 

[irishpatrick]

I have been rereading about the third secret of Fatima.

Here it is from the Vatican website: Link

It has been thought that it foretold of the attempt on John Paul II’s life. I am wondering if that was just the beginning, since it also involved “Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.”

It sure makes the mind wonder…

 

[irishpatrick]

Why if nothing to hide?

???

 

[stbruderklaus]

Not that a Lutheran is usually the best defender of the Pope, but…

I would also remind folks, that this is Holy Week. The world always seems to blow something way out of proportion just before Easter, every year. The attacks are different, but the grandiose claims of finally debunking the Church of Christ are almost always the same. The pope is the most recognizable Christian figure in the world, and it’s no surprise that they take aim at him. This will pass.

Now, that being said, this is by no means a new problem for the Roman Catholic Church. Lutherans railed against similar problems in the 16th century, suggesting that the mandatory discipline of celebacy in the west was a contributing factor (unlike the east, which didn’t seem to have nearly the same proportion of problems in this regard,) as we might still suggest today. Celebacy is a rare charism, and without it, celebacy is unnatural and an awful temptation toward all sorts of evil. Of course, this kind of horror is not only found in Roman parishes, but in others as well… but I think the Roman Catholic Church will once again have to deal with the issue of mandatory celebacy for their clergy, and what that means in the larger Christian context… and whether or not this discipline is authentically catholic, or a mistake that ought to be dealt with once and for all.

This too shall pass, but the Church of Christ will continue, in spite of sinful men and women. It’s been this way from the beginning, as even Church Fathers have noted that the road to hell is lined with the skulls of bishops and priests (Chrysostom, I believe.) The devil will always attempt to wound the Bride of Christ from within, but he cannot overcome Her.

Grace and peace,

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Hello? Are you not listening?

In response to a request by lawyers, the Vatican used the soverign immunity argument. Who and how would anyone, including the US justice system, prevail on an unwilling pope to testify? Would anyone dare to arrest the pope? This is getting silly.

They also argued that the pope is not the employer of the bishops. True, he doesn’t sign their paychecks. But he does hire and fire.

Putting these arguments out is disgusting. Protecting Joseph Ratzinger has become more important than protecting children.

Whither hath gone the bride of Christ?

*VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Pope Benedict, accused by victims’ lawyers of being ultimately responsible for a cover-up of sexual abuse of children by priests, cannot be called to testify at any trial because he has immunity as a head of state, a top Vatican legal official said on Thursday.

The interview with Giuseppe dalla Torre, head of the Vatican’s tribunal, was published in Italy’s Corriere della Sera newspaper as Pope Benedict began Holy Thursday services in St Peter’s Basilica and Catholics marked the most solemn week of the liturgical calendar, culminating on Sunday in Easter Day.

The pope did not refer in his sermon to the crisis of confidence sweeping the Church as almost daily revelations surface of sexual abuse of children in the past, accompanied by allegations of a cover-up.*

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100401/ts_nm/us_pope_abuse

---

Is it just me, or does it seem that the dangers for our Holy Father’s safety is beginning to grow? I recall some prophecies that state in a future time the Pope will be driven from Rome and into exhile, where he will be killed. I cannot recall if those were approved prophecies or not, so it might not even be legitimate to bring that up, it is just that I pray for the Pope’s safety in all this because it seems an awful lot of people want to blame him first.

 

[Rence]

Why if nothing to hide?

Exactly. He is inviting rumors and speculation by just not answering the questions. It makes a lot of people wonder what he’s trying to hard to hide. I’m beginning to wonder if he actually does have something to hide myself and it’s very discouraging. Why not just answer? Why not show proof as to his innocence? why not just show that he did, whatever he did, correctly? I hope that he knows what he’s doing…

 

[Khrystyne]

*Woah…let’s hang on a minute. Throwing out random numbers is how rumors get started…millions? One child being abused is too many, but let’s be careful of throwing around random numbers, and stats. I am saddened about the abuse cases as well…I do not think that people who had anything to do with the actual abuse, or covering up of it all, if they are alive today, should be in the clergy. Regardless if they confessed, they shouldn’t be permitted to hold positions within the clergy, if they commited crimes against children. That goes without saying. I agree there. At the same time, we must show forgiveness and mercy, because that is what CHRIST expects of us. But, let’s wait and see…our Pope will do the just and right thing…it just might take some time. Let’s have faith in him…and keep praying. *

Prayer is needed. Please pray your rosary for the strengthening of HOLY MOTHER CHURCHES Priests and representatives. Pray for protection of the Pope, can you imagine the enormous weight of his cross right now?, please pray and DO NOT ADD to the suffering of Christ within His Body AND Church. Do not focus your anger on Christ in His Church and upon His representatives, but tell it to God and let Him deal and delt out what is needed. PRAY.
Don’t underestimate the power of praying the rosary. It is only pride to keep you from it.

God Bless

 

[Biggie]

Exactly. He is inviting rumors and speculation by just not answering the questions. It makes a lot of people wonder what he’s trying to hard to hide. I’m beginning to wonder if he actually does have something to hide myself and it’s very discouraging. Why not just answer? Why not show proof as to his innocence? why not just show that he did, whatever he did, correctly? I hope that he knows what he’s doing…

Do you honestly believe an “answer” will satisfy those who are continuing to bring these accusations? It is directly analogous, in my opinion, to the imprisonment and trial of Our Lord, and what response did he make? As Thomas a Kempis wrote, “It is no small thing to stand silent at the time of trial.”

Every Catholic needs now to practice his faith more piously, more rigorously and more prayerfully in response to these attacks. Be resolute and, as Our Lord said time and again, be not afraid.

I read not too long ago the biography of Luther, and abuses within the priesthood he witnessed in Rome figured large in his rebellion - 500 years ago! He objected to the indolent lives of many priests and friars, he objected to the display of opulence and privilege by bishops, he objected to the lifestyle of the Pope himself. My point is that whatever your view on Luther’s complaints, the Church continued on. Accusations of immoral relations between priests and nuns, between priests and priests, and direct attacks on the Pope’s person have always been out there.

The one advantage that being a member of a two thousand year old institution affords is the perspective of history.

 

[irishpatrick]

Hello? Are you not listening?

In response to a request by lawyers, the Vatican used the soverign immunity argument. Who and how would anyone, including the US justice system, prevail on an unwilling pope to testify? Would anyone dare to arrest the pope? This is getting silly.

They also argued that the pope is not the employer of the bishops. True, he doesn’t sign their paychecks. But he does hire and fire.

Putting these arguments out is disgusting. Protecting Joseph Ratzinger has become more important than protecting children.

Whither hath gone the bride of Christ?

Some people want to make the Pope the ultimate responsibility because they can see larger dollar signs in the global Church. Can you not see that???

Please read the link I provided…in the USA the abuse peaked in 1980 (30 years ago), and since the early to mid-90s abuse claims have literally fallen to levels that no other insitution on earth can even approach right now. I would say the Church has done a lot, just in a very quiet manner.

Now, I wonder, why is that the Pope is having his feet held to the fire for this, yet if he ever speaks out against gay marriage or against abortion, he is condemned by the very same people who attack him now for things he did not even do?

 

[irishpatrick]

Not that a Lutheran is usually the best defender of the Pope, but…

I would also remind folks, that this is Holy Week. The world always seems to blow something way out of proportion just before Easter, every year. The attacks are different, but the grandiose claims of finally debunking the Church of Christ are almost always the same. The pope is the most recognizable Christian figure in the world, and it’s no surprise that they take aim at him. This will pass.

Now, that being said, this is by no means a new problem for the Roman Catholic Church. Lutherans railed against similar problems in the 16th century, suggesting that the mandatory discipline of celebacy in the west was a contributing factor (unlike the east, which didn’t seem to have nearly the same proportion of problems in this regard,) as we might still suggest today. Celebacy is a rare charism, and without it, celebacy is unnatural and an awful temptation toward all sorts of evil. Of course, this kind of horror is not only found in Roman parishes, but in others as well… but I think the Roman Catholic Church will once again have to deal with the issue of mandatory celebacy for their clergy, and what that means in the larger Christian context… and whether or not this discipline is authentically catholic, or a mistake that ought to be dealt with once and for all.

This too shall pass, but the Church of Christ will continue, in spite of sinful men and women. It’s been this way from the beginning, as even Church Fathers have noted that the road to hell is lined with the skulls of bishops and priests (Chrysostom, I believe.) The devil will always attempt to wound the Bride of Christ from within, but he cannot overcome Her.

Grace and peace,

Celibacy has nothing to do with this, considering abuse in families with married fathers are far more likely to commit abuse, than nearly anywhere else. Further, while this is not the place, there is very strong Biblical evidence for celibacy–this site has many threads addressing that suject.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

The fact remains that we don’t know all the facts that surround these cases. The fact that he is pope should not entitle him to more defense than any other bishop, archbishop or cardinal.

Some people want to make the Pope the ultimate responsibility because they can see larger dollar signs in the global Church. Can you not see that???

Please read the link I provided…in the USA the abuse peaked in 1980 (30 years ago), and since the early to mid-90s abuse claims have literally fallen to levels that no other insitution on earth can even approach right now. I would say the Church has done a lot, just in a very quiet manner.

Now, I wonder, why is that the Pope is having his feet held to the fire for this, yet if he ever speaks out against gay marriage or against abortion, he is condemned by the very same people who attack him now for things he did not even do?