Pope Lifts Excommunications of SSPX Bishops

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The question was to providing the source material by which the names you listed asserted the invalidity of excommunication of the 4 bishops. Having reviewed the various materials from Mr. Michael Davis which you provided, I did not see an ad rem response.
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I’m genuinely sorry, but I can’t find this response. Can you give me the posting #?
It also perpetrates the incorrect notion that the Roman curia itself (in the three named cardinals) have acted against a jurisdictional decision of the pope.
As you will see by perusing the documents, and as I have previously pointed out, the pope did not intervene at all except to mention Cdl Gantin’s declaration in his own Motu proprio Ecclesia Dei as a fait accompli - that means - a fait accompli by Cdl Gantin. I have discovered that this kind of doubletalk is now standard from the Vatican.
However, it usefully provided that the PCILT note found that no reason to believe that a canonical extenuating circumstance existed. (Here I recall Luther’s “here I stand, I can do no other” and marvel at some native similarities in the situations.)
[Hmmmm- if I were into point scoring, i would question the use of that monster as a role model. It is he who responded to a papal monition with the words 'another f*rt from the pope".
*Of course the PCILT deny the fact in black and white in front of them. It is not in dispute that the Party Line is that lafebvre’s excommnication was valid. hence they cannot accept the plainest statements in the JCR that refute them. The real question is, how far can the PCILT’s statement be defended in jurisprudence and common justice, not to mention common sense? How far can we accept an ‘interpretation’ of the statement “this is white” that declares ‘this actually says, “this is black?”’
However, the Murray thesis (which applied to the adherents of the society rather than to the 4) needs to be understood by looking at an actual published article (it was a licentiate thesis) and not a secondary source that talks about it, no matter how extensively.
Reasonable. However, you will not find any reputable attempt to deny what the thesis actually stated. Admittedly, I haven’t a signed copy of the thesis to upload. But I hope an enquiry to the University would be fruitful.
I will recommend a more cautious approach to what people say rather than what those with a point of view assert they say from secondary and tertiary undocumented sources subject to alteration. I think this approach will be more useful to discussion and the discovery of truth.
Unfortunately, all those who contribute have a point of view. This characteristic is by no means confined to those in sympathy with the SSPX position (not that I’m implying that you believe that - I mention it for completeness.)
 
Unless you can see into Bishop Williamson’s soul, you cannot say that he “hates Jews” or is “racist”. You should retract those statements.

This sort of calumny and detraction is especially grave when targetted against a Bishop.
It’s unfortunate that you couldn’t come up with even a single statement from Williamson to show that he doesn’t hate Jews.

I’ll take back what I said - I don’t know for sure that he hates Jews. I just find it to be the obvious conclusion from his holocaust-denial. I’ve never heard of a holocaust-denier anywhere who didn’t hate Jews. Have you? Has anyone?
 
John Paul I took a half a step back, and he died all of the sudden.

(Some say St. Pius X appeared to him…)

John Paul II was a bit ambiguos for a while at a certain point.

He was shot, and he lived, but it left certain things clear.

There are no free lancers in this world.

You guys uh don’t really think about certain things.

Do you guys know how the Pope was a couple decades back?

How about the new hailed Cardinal Cañizares?

Oh sure they are really conservative.






Gee a while ago they were the spearheads of liberalism.

Saintly conversion?

Uh no. Learn your role.

ProDomina, it sounds like you’re accusing the pope of being a liberal at heart, pretending to be conservative, to do evil within the church. Did I misunderstand you? Perhaps you should express this more clearly so people don’t get the wrong idea :confused:
 
It’s unfortunate that you couldn’t come up with even a single statement from Williamson to show that he doesn’t hate Jews.
I specifically remember a talk he gave in which he described the Jewish parents of a seminarian as “good people”. His parents were paying for his seminary tuition. If I happen across the link, I’ll send it to you.

So, I believe His Excellency when he says he feels no hatred towards Jews. I think he’s just very prone to conspiracy theories.

EDIT: Here’s the link. stasaudio.org/samples/samples/doctrinal-2002%20(Anti-Modernist).mp3

The part about Jews being “good people” begins at about 7 minutes.
 
I specifically remember a talk he gave in which he described the Jewish parents of a seminarian as “good people”. His parents were paying for his seminary tuition. If I happen across the link, I’ll send it to you.

So, I believe His Excellency when he says he feels no hatred towards Jews. I think he’s just very prone to conspiracy theories.

EDIT: Here’s the link. stasaudio.org/samples/samples/doctrinal-2002%20(Anti-Modernist).mp3

The part about Jews being “good people” begins at about 7 minutes.
Thank you for this link, Dauphin! I thought it was very interesting to actually hear more from Bishop Williamson than the infamous few minutes on Swedish TV in which he denies the Holocaust.

So perhaps he isn’t a foaming-at-the-mouth “Jew-hater,” but then, Ahmadinejad has always claimed to like Jews on even days while on odd days he is calling for the destruction of Israel. So it’s hard to take a person at his own word. Still, you are right that we can’t see into his heart, and to say that Williamson “hates” Jews is perhaps a little strong. But that still doesn’t let him off the hook.

For me, the impression I get from this lecture is one of amazing condescension. That seems to be the form anti-Semitism takes when it appears among Catholics. The Church has rarely expressed hatred for the Jews, but condescension? Absolutely. Starting with the otherwise wonderful St. Augustine, who said that Jews must be allowed to exist in our society if only so that we can see what a degraded state those who deny Christ end up in. From what I’ve read of SSPX websites – there was a good post from Chosen_people a few pages back – this is the animating spirit of their relationship to the Jews: Jews are sort of pathetic, they’re missing out on the Truth, they aren’t willing to admit that they “killed Christ,” etc. And, as Williamson says about modernists in this podcast, “sure, we need to love them, we need to pray for them, etc etc., but it’s a waste of time to argue with them…it’s not even worth the effort.”

So maybe this is an attitude Williamson holds towards all “infidels” – not just the Jews, but liberals, modernists, non-Catholics, etc. And perhaps that means that anti-Semitism is, if not too harsh a charge, too narrow a charge to level against him. In other words, he is just a fairly arrogant person, in general.

I mean, it shows – first of all, sure he says that these seminarian’s grandparents are good people (“despite being Jews”), yet he says so only to introduce a “buuuuut…” His insinuations are sort of nasty, don’t you think? He compares these two Jewish people (who in his mind may very well stand in for all people who have not accepted Christ) to the “stupid liberals” who think that 2+2=5 because it’s more “creative.” I don’t know about you, but I found his conflation of the grandparents’ Judaism with their modernism to really muddy things up…he seems to treat Judaism as just another lame falsehood that must be stamped out, rather than as the ancient, precisely pre-modern faith tradition that it is.

His attitude is exactly the opposite of that of our beautiful modern Popes, who call the Jews our “elder siblings,” and who – rather than despairing of the possibility of reasoning with them – engage them in debates (the Rabbi whose ideas were discussed in the Holy Father’s Jesus book called it a “love letter” to him) and visit their synagogues and invite them to important Synods. The point is, the Popes treats non-believers as rational people whom it is WORTH talking to, both because they have intrinsic dignity and because perhaps if they are rational they can eventually be led further towards the truth (as can we through dialogue with others, and with them). But Bishop Williamson explicitly says, “It is not worth it…just go home.” Implying, “keep the Church as small as possible. It is an in-club: only reasonable people who ‘get it’ are allowed.”

CONTINUED —>
 
<— CONTINUED

Of course, if he would only stop to think as much as he exhorts modernists to think, perhaps he would realize the central failing of his lecture. I, myself, was ready to laugh near the beginning of it. In one breath he blithely mentions the Incarnation as something obviously true that modernism doesn’t try to attack – at least, not directly. And then in the next breath he talks about how modernists think that two opposing statements can be true at the same time. “The Novus Ordo is, and isn’t, one with the liturgical tradition,” he quotes, and we can well imagine him rolling his eyes. But wait a second!! Isn’t the Incarnation precisely such a mystery, where two seemingly contradictory things are true at the same time? Jesus was all God, and all man…why can’t the Novus Ordo, the recreation of the Sacrifice of the Mass, also participate in the deep and mysterious paradoxical tension that imbues all of Christianity and without which the Church could not exist?

Perhaps he has an explanation for this, but I would greatly have appreciated hearing it, in lieu of a sarcastic and totally simplistic rant against those stupid modernists. Yes, that is indeed the conclusion I am coming to: not that the Bishop is hateful, but that he’s fairly simplistic and not as smart as he thinks he is, and not nearly as reasonable as he should be if he’s to claim to be a pastor in our Church. After all, he has proven himself completely incapable of recognizing the unarguable truth of the existence of the Holocaust, which not a single reputable historian worth her salt would ever, ever, ever deny.

Which brings me to my final point. There are people on this forum who say, “Well, he is not denying the Holocaust, he is just quibbling with the facts.” I have posted numerous posts protesting against that argument, which minimizes the importance of historical facts, and so I was tickled pink to hear Williamson talking about the unity of Truth at the end of this podcast. His point was to say that miracles are legitimate expressions of spirituality and proofs of God’s power – they are not just crude material magic tricks. I quote: “Reality is one and Truth is one…it takes something material to prove to us things spiritual.” I couldn’t agree more. And I think it also stands to reason that the Bishop’s fuzzy interpretation of an historical event (in this case, the Holocaust, the biggest instance of religiously and ethnically motivated mass destruction of the millennium and one of the best-documented calamities of all time) proves to us something about his spirit.

…I mean, it would be unfair of me not to admit that he did say a lot that was true and important: how people today tend to care more about being “nice” to each other than proclaiming the truth, etc. But charity is not one or the other: either careless, uncommitted niceness, or arrogant condescending dogmatism. Charity is somewhere in between: it is appreciating what is best in a human being, or in a person’s life or faith or argument, and taking that as a starting point for trying to help them to become even better.

In my humble opinion, that is.

Peace,
+AMDG+
 
I specifically remember a talk he gave in which he described the Jewish parents of a seminarian as “good people”. His parents were paying for his seminary tuition. If I happen across the link, I’ll send it to you.

So, I believe His Excellency when he says he feels no hatred towards Jews. I think he’s just very prone to conspiracy theories.

EDIT: Here’s the link. stasaudio.org/samples/samples/doctrinal-2002%20(Anti-Modernist).mp3

The part about Jews being “good people” begins at about 7 minutes.
Well he says these two Jews were good people. But I can imagine the inquisitors saying that the people they were torturing were good people and they were torturing them into recanting for their own good. “To save these good people”.

I guess after reading the SSPX website about Jews working to destroy the church, I wonder what they would do with the Jews, who they claim not to hate, if they had the power. If someone says they don’t hate Jews, but they want to force them to live in ghettos, or persecute them, their words ring hollow.

I’m really curious now and want to learn more about what SSPX believes about the Jews. Should Jews be allowed to teach their faith to their children? Should they be allowed to promote their faith in public? And if not, what should the penalty be for Jews who publicly denying Christ, according to Williamson?
 
ProDomina, it sounds like you’re accusing the pope of being a liberal at heart, pretending to be conservative, to do evil within the church. Did I misunderstand you? Perhaps you should express this more clearly so people don’t get the wrong idea :confused:
What he is at heart, I don’t know. I won’t judge that. He is my pope and I love him and will die for him be he a liberal republicanist or the most conservatie monarchist.

But, the thing is that things are not all that transparent as we think. Decisions are not made on things we see on the surface.

One day the orders are to be as liberal as you can be, another take three steps back. Who is deeper into the game and who just obeying because he is forced to, only discernment of the spirits can tell.

What is sure is that everyone dances to the same tune, just some with the left foot and others with the right.
 
Why is it hateful or anti-semetic to say that Nazis did not want to kill Jews with mass genocide? That’s the opposite to saying Jews deserved to die. The controversial bishop is not our enemy, and even if he was Jesus told us to love our enemies and do good to them. The world doesn’t understand this, but I hope you do.
 
Why is it hateful or anti-semetic to say that Nazis did not want to kill Jews with mass genocide? That’s the opposite to saying Jews deserved to die. The controversial bishop is not our enemy, and even if he was Jesus told us to love our enemies and do good to them. The world doesn’t understand this, but I hope you do.
Pope on Shoah: Never again may violence humiliate the dignity of man!

Then Pope Benedict firmly said “… I urge that the memory of the Shoah lead humanity to reflect on the unforeseeable power of evil when it conquers the Human Heart. May the Shoah be a warning to all against oblivion, against denial or revisionism, because violence committed against any one single human being is violence against all humanity. No man is an island, a well known poet once wrote. The Shoah teaches both the new and older generations, that only the demanding journey of listening and dialogue, of love and forgiveness can lead the world’s peoples, cultures and religions towards the desired goal of brotherhood and peace in truth. Never again may violence humiliate the dignity of man!”.
oecumene.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=261984

Speaking on the 70th anniversary of ‘the Night of Broken Glass’ - a reference to the windows of thousands of Jewish businesses and synagogues that were smashed by the Nazis - the pope said: ‘‘I still feel pain over what happened in that tragic circumstance, whose memory should serve to ensure that similar horrors are never repeated and so that we strive - on every level - against any form of anti-Semitism and discrimination’’.

The Vatican broadcaster also recalled visits to Auschwitz and Cologne Synagogue in 2005.

On all these occasions, it said, the pope had used ‘‘unequivocal words’’ which condemned the ‘‘unheard-of crime’’ produced by ‘‘insane racist ideology’’.
ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-01-27_127311795.html
 
I think its another political blunder by Pope Benedict XVI.

You see, he’s more liberal in his thinking than Pope John Paul II, who excommunicated them in the first place.
Jim
Well, the trads have pointed out for years that it wasn’t actually Pope John Paul II who did the excommunicating, although this impression was allowed to flourish uncorrected for 191/2 years. It was Cdl Gantin, head of the Congregation for Bishops. JPII referred to this excommunication as a fait accompli, but without adding his own authority to it by any legal process.
You will now note, now that it is being lifted, that it is not being referred to as an excommunication by the Pope, but by the Prefect for the Congregation of Bishops. This is precisely the kind of thing that the trads have been pointing out. things are not always what they seem at first glance.
In the Decree lifting the excommunication, the Cardinal expressly states that it was on the instruction of Pope Benedict XVII. This time we have been told explicitly where the buck stops.

Bp Fellay, knowing well how Rome & Romanitá has always worked, did not ask for an annulment of the consecrations. He was content with a simple lifting. Politics is the Art of the Possible.
But from now on, let it not be repeated that it was the Pope who did the excommunicating. The latest document from the Vatican says different.
 
However, the Murray thesis (which applied to the adherents of the society rather than to the 4) needs to be understood by looking at an actual published article (it was a licentiate thesis) and not a secondary source that talks about it, no matter how extensively.
Beg pardon! I had not noticed that you are asserting that Fr Murray’s thesis was that the exommunication of Archbp. Lefebvre was valid, & that only the laypeople are excluded. There would hardly be anything to retract in that statement, if that were all he had said.
Where do you obtain this judgment of the content of his thesis?
Readers must make their own judgments - as well as wondering why, after so many years, the full thesis has not yet been published. As, to my knowledge, the laypeople have never been told they were automatically excommunicated, the failure to publish the thesis is hard to explain, if it had authoritatively refuted the SSPX’s claim that the excommunications were always invalid.
Please note geocities.com/SSPXCath/study4.html
The 1988 Consecrations
Canonical Study
Part 2

II. A Contested Excommunication
A. The Facts and Some Solid Points
  1. The Facts
    
In his “Thesis for a Licentiate” in Canon Law which was argued and approved with the highest grade (July, 1995) at the Pontifical Gregorian University, Rev. Fr. Gerard Murray, an American priest who has no connection with the Society of Saint Pius X, held that the excommunication latae sententiae, declared at the time against Archbishop Lefebvre, Bishop de Castro Mayer, and the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre without pontifical mandate, is not valid according to strict canonical law, nor is the connected accusation of schism valid in the formal sense. As of yet, his thesis for the licentiate has not been published, but a summary of it and an interview with its author is available in the American magazine, The Latin Mass.(1)
    Two facts must be mentioned: 1) Fr. Murray made a partial retraction of his own thesis (Summer, 1996); and 2) the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts has published its opinion that the excommunications were justified. Though the council is entrusted with interpreting the laws of the Church, it is not a font of law itself and its opinion, in any case, was anonymous. The “Murray Thesis” is not even considered for, it said, “It is impossible to evaluate the Murray Thesis because it has not been published and the two articles [of the magazine --Ed.] which appeared about it are confused.”(2)
    Could it be that the thesis is contrary to the public policy of the Gregorian University? …] Without a doubt, a scholarly analysis would have considered the thesis of Fr. Murray, but the council’s denial has silenced its viewpoint. On the other hand, Fr. Murray published his retraction one year before the appearance of the opinion attributed to the Pontifical Council. Why on earth would this council have to say anything regarding arguments already formally, even if partially, retracted by their author?! – Retracted, by the way, even before a wider public with authoritative knowledge had been able to read it.
  2. Solid Points
  3. …]the fact remains that the thesis had been approved with the highest grade by the professors of the Gregorian University, conferring on this work exceptional value. This approval must be held in due regard.(3)
  4. The extract of the “Murray Thesis” which appeared in The Latin Mass is sufficient to understand, namely, that the American priest, with Code of Canon Law in hand, denies – or if you prefer, places into doubt – the validity of the excommunication ipso iure applied to Archbishop Lefebvre because he acted in a state of necessity without bringing into being any schism. According to Fr. Murray, it is necessary to recognize that, on the basis of the canon law in force, the excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre is substantially invalid and the schism does not exist. It is thesis undoubtedly courageous and above all founded on law …]
    [continued next posting]
 
[Continued from previous posting]

B. Precedents
Fr. Murray is not the first to maintain the invalidity of the unjust excommunication declared against Archbishop Lefebvre and the non-existence of the so-called “schism” imputed to him. [c.f.] the canonical study of the German canonist, Rev. Fr. Rudolf Kaschewski, which appeared in Is Tradition Excommunicated? …], on the aspect of the episcopal consecrations without papal permission.(4) This study, published shortly before the episcopal consecration of Archbishop Lefebvre and by an author independent of the Society of Saint Pius X, demonstrates unequivocally that, on the basis of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, the episcopal consecration without pontifical mandate cannot be punished with excommunication. In fact, the author writes at the conclusion of his essay:
Therefore, the widely spread opinion that the consecration of one or several bishops without papal mandate would cause an automatic excommunication and would lead to schism is false. Due to the very terms of the law itself, an excommunication for the aforementioned case could not be applied, neither automatically nor by sentence of a judge.(5)
The article appearing in the original Italian SiSiNoNo of July 1988 (XIV) 13, titled “Neither Schismatics nor Excommunicated” …] demonstrates how, in the case of the episcopal consecrations for the Society of Saint Pius X, all five of the conditions required for taking advantage of the law corresponding to the state of necessity had been realized. They are namely: 1) the existence of the state of necessity; 2) attempts having been made to remedy it with ordinary means; 3) the “extraordinary” action not being based on an act intrinsically evil nor harmful to neighbor; 4) having remained within the limits of the requirements actually imposed by the state of necessity; and 5) never having put into question the power of the competent authority, the consent of which it would have been able to presume in all legitimacy in normal circumstances.(6)
We have wished …] to draw attention to the fact that Fr. Murray concludes to a point substantially similar to Fr. Kaschewski’s. It can be said, in fact, that Fr. Murray applies them to a concrete case. In our mind this shows that the tone of the norms of the Code of Canon Law is clear enough to have de facto permitted the establishment of opinions that are “on the same beam.” As laid down by strict law, the excommunication could not be declared nor could the censured act be maintained as schismatic.
 
A quote from the article:

Vienna’s cardinal and archbishop, Christoph Schoenborn, on Sunday lashed out at the decision to bring Williamson back into the fold, saying that “he who denies the Holocaust cannot be rehabilitated within the Church.”

A cardinal said this?!! A CARDINAL?!! :mad: :mad: :banghead:

Where else, but in the Church, can someone be rehabilitated?! Where else does Christ come to us offering forgiveness?! Is he out of his mind? Or has he forgotten that he has his office because God Himself was born a man and suffered and died at the hands of His creation, precisely so that we can be rehabilitated? May God show him the mercy he refuses to others.

Lord, deliver us from the scandal of such men. May they have no influence over the souls of the faithful, unless they preach your Truth. Keep your priests true that we the faithful may not be lost.
You have to understand the Cardinal’s use of the word “rehabilitate”. In the Church the term is used to describe a psychological state or a worldview. It has nothing to do with morals.

What he is saying is that the bishop needs to have his head examined. He’s using more sophisticated language.

JR 🙂
 
The good Bishop Williamson actually spoke the truth. His Holiness, however, could not back him up as it might result in the Jews upping the rent of the Vatican. Seriously now, more and more evidence suggest that 6 mil Jews did not perish as a deliberate policy of the 3rd Reich. A more conservative figure would be in around 300,000 that died of all causes. How the 6 mil figure is still doing the circuits, when just at Auschwitz the earlier figure of 4 mil has been reduced to 1,5 mil is a puzzle to many. The Draconian laws forbidding even discussion of the subject smells very fishy. Come on people, get rid off the blinkers.
 
The good Bishop Williamson actually spoke the truth. His Holiness, however, could not back him up as it might result in the Jews upping the rent of the Vatican. Seriously now, more and more evidence suggest that 6 mil Jews did not perish as a deliberate policy of the 3rd Reich. A more conservative figure would be in around 300,000 that died of all causes. How the 6 mil figure is still doing the circuits, when just at Auschwitz the earlier figure of 4 mil has been reduced to 1,5 mil is a puzzle to many. The Draconian laws forbidding even discussion of the subject smells very fishy. Come on people, get rid off the blinkers.
Well from your post it should be pretty obvious that the Jews, all fourteen million of us, control everything from the Pope to all parliaments that make laws (that’s why no one ever dares criticize Israel) 🤷
 
The good Bishop Williamson actually spoke the truth. His Holiness, however, could not back him up as it might result in the Jews upping the rent of the Vatican. Seriously now, more and more evidence suggest that 6 mil Jews did not perish as a deliberate policy of the 3rd Reich. A more conservative figure would be in around 300,000 that died of all causes. How the 6 mil figure is still doing the circuits, when just at Auschwitz the earlier figure of 4 mil has been reduced to 1,5 mil is a puzzle to many. The Draconian laws forbidding even discussion of the subject smells very fishy. Come on people, get rid off the blinkers.
I read that it was a crime in Germany to deny the holocaust? Does that make Bishop Williamson a criminal? Should Catholics have bishops who are criminals and under investigation for crimes which could lead to imprisonment?
 
I read that it was a crime in Germany to deny the holocaust? Does that make Bishop Williamson a criminal? Should Catholics have bishops who are criminals and under investigation for crimes which could lead to imprisonment?
I think it is moving beyond this now. Did you see the interview by the Jewish descent SPPX priest trying to explain the bisho’s comments? His own comments though not as outrageous as the bishops were quite troubling.

The SPPX is going to be carefully scrutinized by, if not Rome, then others. If there is any hint of genraql anti-Semitic attitudes in the SPPX there is no way Rome will be allowed to let them reconcile. The light of public opinion including that of many Catholics who are opposed to the give-in by Rome to the SPPX will weigh too heavily.

If indeed reconciliation becomes impossible some might even say that perhaps this is the Spirit at work. Preventing the church from going down a wrong path.
 
The good Bishop Williamson actually spoke the truth. His Holiness, however, could not back him up as it might result in the Jews upping the rent of the Vatican. Seriously now, more and more evidence suggest that 6 mil Jews did not perish as a deliberate policy of the 3rd Reich. A more conservative figure would be in around 300,000 that died of all causes. How the 6 mil figure is still doing the circuits, when just at Auschwitz the earlier figure of 4 mil has been reduced to 1,5 mil is a puzzle to many. The Draconian laws forbidding even discussion of the subject smells very fishy. Come on people, get rid off the blinkers.
Having done some serious reading and investigating the matter since the Jews made it a world-wide issue, I am of the same opinion now as you avfif.
 
The good Bishop Williamson actually spoke the truth. His Holiness, however, could not back him up as it might result in the Jews upping the rent of the Vatican. Seriously now, more and more evidence suggest that 6 mil Jews did not perish as a deliberate policy of the 3rd Reich. A more conservative figure would be in around 300,000 that died of all causes. How the 6 mil figure is still doing the circuits, when just at Auschwitz the earlier figure of 4 mil has been reduced to 1,5 mil is a puzzle to many. The Draconian laws forbidding even discussion of the subject smells very fishy. Come on people, get rid off the blinkers.
Please provide links or cites to your evidence. I grew up with men who helped liberate those camps. If they were alive today, they would smack you in the face. You should be ashamed and the Church still must atone for its atrocious silence in Germany and Italy during those terrible years.
 
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