Pope met with Kentucky clerk Kim Davis during his US trip, according to her lawyers

[7_Sorrows]

It really makes no difference if the Pope met with Kim Davis or not to me. If the Holy Father did fine, if he didn’t fine. She has been under such media scrutiny since this started I don’t know why she would want to lie.

 

[Thorolfr]

Let the spin begin… Fair is fair. The conservatives did it too I’ll give you that.

I think that quote from the New York Times got it all wrong. I’m sure that Alberto Melloni is really a conservative Vatican historian in Italy and that John Gehring is really the program director for a conservative advocacy group…

 

[FollowChrist34]

I think that quote from the New York Times got it all wrong. I’m sure that Alberto Melloni is really a conservative Vatican historian in Italy and that John Gehring is really the program director for a conservative advocacy group…

Now you’re getting the hang of it…

 

[Bill_Martin]

The local news here is melting down over this. They seem to feel betrayed to find out that the Pope is Catholic.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

It seems obvious to me that the Vatican didn’t want a trip about the family to suddenly become about Kim Davis. So they kept the meeting under wraps until the trip was over. If the meeting was public then literally everything the Pope said or did would be engulfed in Kim Davis controversy.

Unfortunately, it became about Kim Davis. Surely the Vatican officials had to know it would. She’s so notorious. Now when a lot of people remember his trip here, they are going to remember his secret meeting with Mrs. Davis, a three-times divorced Pentecostal (really, I don’t care what her religion is), who is playing this for all the media attention she can get. I don’t care what she does, but I don’t like her dragging our religion and our Pontiff into it. I feel Pope Francis had no idea what he was getting into. He’s a saintly man.

 

[Mystrx]

I think that quote from the New York Times got it all wrong. I’m sure that Alberto Melloni is really a conservative Vatican historian in Italy and that John Gehring is really the program director for a conservative advocacy group…

:clapping: Yep.

 

[cornbread_r2]

While it’s certain that the pope would fully support Davis’s right to conscientious objection, it’s far less certain that he would endorse all of her actions in this matter. For instance, does the pope agree that Davis has the right and obligation to forbid her deputies to issue licenses to everyone? Would he endorse her subsequent actions in regards to the county’s forms? Perhaps he would, but I have my doubts. I am far less doubtful that her supporters will assume that he does for as long as the Vatican declines to comment on or clarify the pope’s intentions in meeting with Davis.

 

[LongingSoul]

This always happens to me. I go to bed with a nice clean kitchen and I wake up the next morning and it looks like there’s been a food fight in here!

I’m wondering what the subscript is here because it seems like an episode that shouldn’t really garner this much angst and all the conspiracy theorists have weighed in.

From my observations of Pope Francis, when he does something under the radar… it’s always out of prudent avoidance of someone elses hidden agenda. He’s one of the most canny people I know.

There is the most probable fact the ‘gay lobby’ had originally set up Ms Davis’ objection, as an outing of a ‘bigot’. Pope Francis probably wanted to redress that misleading representation of her, in his own subtle way. Conscientious objection is an important human right and can’t be negated as ‘discrimination’.

 

[LongingSoul]

Unfortunately, it became about Kim Davis. Surely the Vatican officials had to know it would. She’s so notorious. Now when a lot of people remember his trip here, they are going to remember his secret meeting with Mrs. Davis, a three-times divorced Pentecostal (really, I don’t care what her religion is), who is playing this for all the media attention she can get. I don’t care what she does, but I don’t like her dragging our religion and our Pontiff into it. I feel Pope Francis had no idea what he was getting into. He’s a saintly man.

I couldn’t disagree more with your last sentiment. Pope Francis is the most astute, canny individual I’ve ever observed.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Unfortunately, it became about Kim Davis. Surely the Vatican officials had to know it would. She’s so notorious. Now when a lot of people remember his trip here, they are going to remember his secret meeting with Mrs. Davis, a three-times divorced Pentecostal (really, I don’t care what her religion is), who is playing this for all the media attention she can get. I don’t care what she does, but I don’t like her dragging our religion and our Pontiff into it. I feel Pope Francis had no idea what he was getting into. He’s a saintly man.

Oh please. Again, if he isn’t supposed to care about being political and simply being a Holy 'man, of course he would meet with her if he felt called to. Again, he has no issue with meeting with transgender, hopefully adopting couples. The media goes nuts on this because by and large they don’t care for Ms. Davis. But they love them some transgenderism, so that doesn’t get much pub. Like was said, the Nancy Pelosi’s of the world had no issues trumpeting their meeting the Pope. I don’t see where Ms Davis is grandstanding about this, but I could be wrong.

I have never seen so much interest in the Pope meeting with someone. It is a non-story. It isn’t an endorsement of her lifestyle, or her the inidividual, but appears to be a show of support for objecting to something on religious grounds.

That people are losing their mind over this when Popes have met with much more horrifying people in the past is laughable. People need to get over it…

 

[FollowChrist34]

I couldn’t disagree more with your last sentiment. Pope Francis is the most astute, canny individual I’ve ever observed.

Speaking of food fights, I can’t believe the blowback this Davis meeting is getting from our liberal camp. I see now why the Holy Father thought to keep it under wraps.

Seriously, he was fair on his visit. I would say he actually tilted to the left more than the right but I am not quibbling. I am honestly surprised at the venom today - and shocked. Did that many people really think the Pope didn’t think Davis was a conscientious objector, with all his religious liberty commentary (which was there all along)? They’ve created a straw Pope - and they want him back, NOW.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I couldn’t disagree more with your last sentiment. Pope Francis is the most astute, canny individual I’ve ever observed.

Actually, my last statement was that he was a “saintly man!” I know what you mean, though.

Well, I thought so myself, I agreed with you about him being canny, until this “secret” meeting with Kim Davis. He couldn’t have chosen anyone worse. Someone on death row would have been better and more compassionate.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Actually, my last statement was that he was a “saintly man!” I know what you mean, though.

Well, I thought so myself, I agreed with you about him being canny, until this “secret” meeting with Kim Davis. He couldn’t have chosen anyone worse. Someone on death row would have been better and more compassionate.

May I introduce you to the New America Face of Love.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Inside the Vatican’s Robert Moynihan has more up on his thoughts of Kim Davis’ meeting with Pope Francis. Here is an excerpt:

Why did the Vatican keep the meeting private? How was it even possible that it occurred, amid the scrutiny of the Pope’s every move by thousands of journalists 24/7? And, again, why Kim Davis?

The Vatican — in my opinion — decided to keep this encounter secret because it wished to respect Kim’s intimacy and not create a circus around her and her husband which might have been emotionally overwhelming. It was respectful of her.

The meeting was possible — in my opinion — because America is still a free country, and people can make private plans to meet which are not necessarily rendered public instantly. There is still space for personal encounters out of the glare of the media spotlights.

Why Kim? This was a very personal encounter and it had — in my opinion — a personal purpose: to let Kim Davis know that the Pope understood and appreciated the emotional and spiritual cost of her stand of conscience to the point of going to jail for her beliefs.

Clearly, the Pope regards the conscience of a person as one of the most intimate and precious parts, or elements, of that person, of that person’s identity, of that person’s soul.

To coerce that conscience, to compel it by force to act against its own deeply held beliefs, becomes, in this understanding, a type of cruelty, a type of violence against the person — a type of execution of that part of the person which is most intimate and precious.

In this sense, the Pope was recognizing that Kim, moved by deeply held beliefs, was under pressure, including time in jail, to submit those beliefs to an external power, the power of the state.

The case of Kim Davis and the Pope is not the only news story in this cycle, and it is not the most important.

The Pope’s decision to meet with Kim Davis was one additional gesture of tenderness toward a person who is passing through a very public struggle of conscience on a very public stage.

That he met and spoke with her privately is, in this context, entirely appropriate.

Pope Francis, in his “little gestures” toward those who are weak, suffering, on death row, and engaged with struggles of conscience, is coherent and inspiring.

insidethevatican.com/news/letter-39-2015-further-thoughts

 

[Lily_Bernans]

May I introduce you to the New America Face of Love.

You may, but I really don’t understand your post. You’d have to elaborate. Does it have to do with visiting prisoners? Honestly, I would, but I’m already a theology teacher and a hospice volunteer. I do better with the dying than with those in prison or even children.

To others,

The whole thing isn’t about politics. It’s about the fact that Kim Davis has no integrity. She wanted to not issue marriage licenses to SS couples (okay, then don’t), but she ALSO was determined she was going to keep her middle-paying job (not good). She is making the other clerks do her bidding and she altered the marriage license forms, something that is NOT her right to do.

Unfortunately, Pope Francis’ trip has turned into a firestorm over this. He would have done better to meet with her publicly. I love him, I will pray for him daily, I will obey him, but I feel hurt and feel he was used.

I agree a person has a right to object, but the right way for Mrs. Davis to object would have been to quit her job. Just say, this is no longer the place for me and leave. That’s the way a brave person of integrity would have done it.

 

[_Abyssinia]

You may, but I really don’t understand your post. You’d have to elaborate. Does it have to do with visiting prisoners? Honestly, I would, but I’m already a theology teacher and a hospice volunteer. I do better with the dying than with those in prison or even children.

To others,

The whole thing isn’t about politics. It’s about the fact that Kim Davis has no integrity. She wanted to not issue marriage licenses to SS couples (okay, then don’t), but she ALSO was determined she was going to keep her middle-paying job (not good). She is making the other clerks do her bidding and she altered the marriage license forms, something that is NOT her right to do.

Unfortunately, Pope Francis’ trip has turned into a firestorm over this. He would have done better to meet with her publicly. I love him, I will pray for him daily, I will obey him, but I feel hurt and feel he was used.

I agree a person has a right to object, but the right way for Mrs. Davis to object would have been to quit her job. Just say, this is no longer the place for me and leave. That’s the way a brave person of integrity would have done it.

Are you indicating she hasn’t got integrity because she did not resign?

 

[FollowChrist34]

You may, but I really don’t understand your post. You’d have to elaborate. Does it have to do with visiting prisoners? Honestly, I would, but I’m already a theology teacher and a hospice volunteer. I do better with the dying than with those in prison or even children.

To others,

The whole thing isn’t about politics. It’s about the fact that Kim Davis has no integrity. She wanted to not issue marriage licenses to SS couples (okay, then don’t), but she ALSO was determined she was going to keep her middle-paying job (not good). She is making the other clerks do her bidding and she altered the marriage license forms, something that is NOT her right to do.

Unfortunately, Pope Francis’ trip has turned into a firestorm over this. He would have done better to meet with her publicly. I love him, I will pray for him daily, I will obey him, but I feel hurt and feel he was used.

I agree a person has a right to object, but the right way for Mrs. Davis to object would have been to quit her job. Just say, this is no longer the place for me and leave. That’s the way a brave person of integrity would have done it.

You are comparing a middle aged Pentecostal woman who is sent to jail because she refuses to violate the tenets of her faith (a faith it would seem on the surface that you share) by issuing SSM licenses, to someone on death row, a convicted criminal.

The point of this religious freedom battle is to gain tolerance for both sides. She should not have to quit her job when there a numerous (see North Carolina) workable options available to accommodate her. This is what she asked for. She was elected to the position before gay marriage was federal law and she has been asking her Office to find ways to work around this for months and months. 40% of Americans oppose SSM. What of your disdain for a fellow human being - I don’t care who it is. Love your enemies and pray for them. You are far from the Pope here - so I guess you can take at least some comfort in that.

 

[coachkfan1]

Your kidding, right? Pope Francis is probably the most talkative Pope we’ve had. Modern communications helps but still.

Anyway the breaking news for liberals is that the Pope is Catholic and upholds the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. Did any of them actually listen to his speeches? They all upheld the family. It’s not the Pope’s style to say straight out homosexual unions are wrong. He just affirms what is true and right.

It’s like when Jesus was teaching the apostles about the indissolubility of marriage he was also saying what marriage is. A vision of marriage that is rooted in Genesis 1-2 and does not include homosexual unions.

Great post.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

You are comparing a middle aged Pentecostal woman who is sent to jail because she refuses to violate the tenets of her faith (a faith it would seem on the surface that you share) by issuing SSM licenses, to someone on death row, a convicted criminal.

The point of this religious freedom battle is to gain tolerance for both sides. She should not have to quit her job when there a numerous (see North Carolina) workable options available to accommodate her. This is what she asked for. She was elected to the position before gay marriage was federal law and she has been asking her Office to find ways to work around this for months and months. 40% of Americans oppose SSM. What of your disdain for a fellow human being - I don’t care who it is. Love your enemies and pray for them. You are far from the Pope here - so I guess you can take at least some comfort in that.

You are being FAR more uncharitable to me than I ever was to Kim Davis!

 

[coachkfan1]

Is it ad hominem? As a gay man, one of the things about Kim Davis that I find most offensive is that she has been married four times and divorced three times, and feels that it is her duty to prevent people like me from getting married even once. And then people here treat her like she is the poster person and leading champion for defending the sanctity of marriage.

Nobody is checking for what a Lutheran heretic finds offensive. The end.