Pope: Other denominations not true churches

[childofmary1143]

The Pope is only reiterating what is Catholic Dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

On a side note I think its a great time to be a Catholic. First the Motu Proprio gets released on Saturday and it throws the Liberals into a hissy fit and now this.:extrahappy: :extrahappy:

 

[rpp]

rpp;2450057:

Many on this thread have already stated the trueness and correctness of the document.

Meanwhile, others have expressed consternation at the timing. This consternation is shared by both the secular news media sources and Catholic news services. And me.

What’s wrong with the timing?

Why is it wrong to release this document now, as opposed to last year or next year?

Vern! I am so disappointed in you! You only quoted the intro of my post. The rest of my post speculates on the answer! Here is my previous post in it’s entirety.

Many on this thread have already stated the trueness and correctness of the document.

Meanwhile, others have expressed consternation at the timing. This consternation is shared by both the secular news media sources and Catholic news services. And me.

But I think what this may be is the first in a series of Papal clarifications on the various interpretations of many of the more “controversial” (“problematic”) passages in the Vatican II documents.

I think that establishing the role and identity of the Church is a logical first step in issuing these Papal clarifications of interpretation.

I hope to see more clarifications on issues such as salvation outside of the Church, the importance of sacred art, the proper role of music in the liturgy and similar common sources of dissent.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Would someone point out a link to the actual text that came out this week? All I’ve managed to find were links to texts that were published years ago.

 

[rpp]

Would someone point out a link to the actual text that came out this week? All I’ve managed to find were links to texts that were published years ago.

Here it is again. The document is titled “Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church.” Here is the link.

Here is a link to a commentary on the document as well (thank you, mlchance, for finding this). Both are short and can be read in just a few minutes.

Read and enjoy!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern! I am so disappointed in you! You only quoted the intro of my post. The rest of my post speculates on the answer! Here is my previous post in it’s entirety.

Originally Posted by rpp
Many on this thread have already stated the trueness and correctness of the document.

Meanwhile, others have expressed consternation at the timing. This consternation is shared by both the secular news media sources and Catholic news services. And me.

But I think what this may be is the first in a series of Papal clarifications on the various interpretations of many of the more “controversial” (“problematic”) passages in the Vatican II documents.

I think that establishing the role and identity of the Church is a logical first step in issuing these Papal clarifications of interpretation.

I hope to see more clarifications on issues such as salvation outside of the Church, the importance of sacred art, the proper role of music in the liturgy and similar common sources of dissent.

My post addressed that part of your post that I have bolded. The rest of your post does not address my question:

What’s wrong with the timing?

Why is it wrong to release this document now, as opposed to last year or next year?

 

[rpp]

Vern, I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. I never said there was anything wrong with the timing. Only that many people, including myself, wondered why this came at this particular point in time.

I never said, nor even implied, that this was bad timing.

Essentially, I posed a question then answered it. It is a rhetorical for of writing I employ from time to time.

Personally, I am glad this came out.

 

[HJProtestant]

I thought it was great…the Pope just proved that “infallibilty” is NOT TRUE.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern as we well know there would never be a good time for these corrections.

I love this Pope. He is clearing up the misunderstandings that have been around for years.

"That %&^$@ Pope just released a document. He makes me so &^%$# mad!"

“What’s wrong with that document?”

"It says things the Catholic Church never said before!"

“No, it merely reiterates what the Church has always said.”

"Well, it’s mis-spelled!"

“No, the spelling is correct.”

"Well , , , well, ah – It’s the timing! The timing is all wrong!

 

[rpp]

I thought it was great…the Pope just proved that “infallibilty” is NOT TRUE.

And how precisely did the Holy Father do that?

 

[brianwalden]

I thought it was great…the Pope just proved that “infallibilty” is NOT TRUE.

Except the Pope didn’t teach from his Chair in the document… he didn’t even write it. And nothing new was taught or declared in the document. The document pretty much just said, “Despite what you’ve been hearing, the Catholic Church does in fact hold Catholic beliefs.” How does that have anything to do with Papal infallibility?

 

[HJProtestant]

The Pope is only reiterating what is Catholic Dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

**Please read Galatians 2:11 through 3:25.

It is “by faith**” we are saved as Paul says in this scripture at least a half a dozen times.

 

[vern_humphrey]

childofmary1143;2453365:

The Pope is only reiterating what is Catholic Dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

**Please read Galatians 2:11 through 3:25.

It is "by faith**

" we are saved as Paul says in this scripture at least a half a dozen times.

Not that tired and long-discredited old argument again.

 

[brianwalden]

childofmary1143;2453365:

The Pope is only reiterating what is Catholic Dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

**Please read Galatians 2:11 through 3:25.

It is "by faith**

" we are saved as Paul says in this scripture at least a half a dozen times.

Well if you’d like to use the words you’re more familiar with, the teaching of the Catholic Church could be said: there is no salvation without faith in the fullness of the Truth which Christ instituted His one Church to preach to all generations.

Even if you believe the Catholic Church is wrong. What is new about this document that suddenly disproves papal infallibility? Either it was already disproved long ago or it still stands, but this document brings absolutely nothing new to the argument. Are you just using this as an excuse to trot out the old hobby horse?

 

[mom2three]

I thought it was great…the Pope just proved that “infallibilty” is NOT TRUE.

This proves nothing about infallibility when one properly understands what is meant by infallibility.

 

[vern_humphrey]

HJProtestant;2453549:

Well if you’d like to use the words you’re more familiar with, the teaching of the Catholic Church could be said: there is no salvation without faith in the fullness of the Truth which Christ instituted His one Church to preach to all generations.

Even if you believe the Catholic Church is wrong. What is new about this document that suddenly disproves papal infallibility? Either it was already disproved long ago or it still stands, but this document brings absolutely nothing new to the argument. Are you just using this as an excuse to trot out the old hobby horse?

One of the earliest Christian prayers is the Apostle’s Creed, which ends:

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church

, the Communion of Saints, the Forgiveness of Sins, the Resurrection of the Body, and Life Without End.
Who does not believe in those things does not have faith.

 

[mom2three]

childofmary1143;2453365:

The Pope is only reiterating what is Catholic Dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

**Please read Galatians 2:11 through 3:25.

It is "by faith**

" we are saved as Paul says in this scripture at least a half a dozen times.

By faith, YES! By faith ALONE, NO!

Please read James 2:24.

Those who are baptized are a part of the Catholic Church, though not in perfect communion with her.
*
CCC 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324 *

You must be a part of the body of Christ, the church, to be saved. This is biblical!

 

[rwoehmke]

In my opinion Benedict has taken aim at one of the largest problems with members of the Catholic Church, lay, religious, and even some clerics who see most denominations as equal or almost equal to their own church. Get unhappy with something, well, I’ll just slip down the block to the xyz’s. I’ll still get to heaven so why worry.

I think that many traditionalist and most dissenters have a totally out of whack notion of what ecumenism is as well. Yes, it is to look for common ground and at the same time to try and understand the others viewpoint. It is not to water down or change one’s belief system in the name of unity in doctrine. One can still treat someone as a brother or sister in Christ without agreeing 100 percent with where they stand. It is better than throwing rocks.

Long live the Pope!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I saw the article in this morning’s new paper. My first response was that B-16 would once again, be issuing a statement to restate what he actually meant. But, I knew I would have to wait to she exactly what the document said. The secular media apparently misinterpreted or ignored this part.

“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church” my emphasis.

As far as the timing on this, I think it may have more to do with the dialog about to take place with the government of China, concerning the Roman Catholic Church, and the government run, Chinese Catholic Church.

Jim

 

[vern_humphrey]

I saw the article in this morning’s new paper. My first response was that B-16 would once again, be issuing a statement to restate what he actually meant. But, I knew I would have to wait to she exactly what the document said. The secular media apparently misinterpreted or ignored this part.

Why are you surprised? That’s their job, to misinterpret and distort the Catholic Church.

 

[rwoehmke]

**Please read Galatians 2:11 through 3:25.

It is “by faith**” we are saved as Paul says in this scripture at least a half a dozen times.

Yes, indeed HJ, by faith in Jesus Christ who founded the Catholic Church through which his graces and salvation flow even to those who are not card carrying members, but who are “crypto members” through their desire to follow Jesus. Welcome to The Church. The door is always open if and when you decide to make your membership open and official.