Pope: Other denominations not true churches

[imamom]

Very interesting reading! I joined today and read this thread from pg 1!

 

[Nordar]

and that’s what i don’t understand. if a protestant doesn’t consider catholics to be christian, then why do they care if the Pope says they aren’t in the true Church? if a pagan (and i’m not comparing catholics to pagans) said i was going to hell, was decieved, whatever; i wouldn’t get upset. i think the protestants who are upset about this are being stupid, either that or maybe something is gnawing on their conscience (or spirit) and feel threatened somehow. i swear, i don’t think i’ll ever understand humans

Thank you, I ask myself this question all the time, what is it that they are so upset about and why? I do not get it!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Thank you, I ask myself this question all the time, what is it that they are so upset about and why? I do not get it!

They are upset because although they say Catholics aren’t Christians and don’t have the Khrisma of Infallibility, deep down, they don’t believe it.

 

[Nordar]

They are upset because although they say Catholics aren’t Christians and don’t have the Khrisma of Infallibility, deep down, they don’t believe it.

Ok I can buy that, and in the mean time I will be saying many many prayers for Our Holy Father!

 

[allischalmers]

Absolutely the Church does NOT say that non-Catholics are not true Christians. The *Catechism *specifically states that they ARE Christians.

Gee Thanks, for letting us be Christians. I could say more but I probiby get banned

 

[brianwalden]

Gee Thanks, for letting us be Christians. I could say more but I probiby get banned

Did you read the document? If you haven’t do that and then post how your denomination defines the Church. After we’ve both honestly expressed our beliefs we can have a good discussion comparing the two - you know ecumenical-like.

 

[guardian1]

I am going to pray for our Benedict XVI to serve for a very, very long time because it is obvious that he wants to restore the Church to the fundamentals that have been lost in our secular society. We have gotten too lax and too liberal on many issues, and I applaud our Pope for coming out to speak the truth. It isn’t his job to make everyone feel good about themselves.

I thank the good Lord above that we have a Pope such as this in such a sinful time. His leadership and outspoken nature are much needed.

ditto that! my wife’s church has “nightclub” worship (please don’t ask, it drives me insane) to bring people in. they do whatever they have to and secularize to bring in the masses. it works, it’s the biggest church in the county. but i wonder if it’s worth watering down the message in order to bring people in. whatever happened to our leaders, spiritual, governmental, etc having a spine and doing what is right? thank God for the Holy Father!

 

[mdgspencer]

The fact that some people are upset shows that there is good reason for this statement, since many don’t seem to know or grasp that it is Catholic teaching. Some dissident Catholic theologians have believed that there is no real difference between Catholics and other Christians, and there is sort of a folk belief about this I have met, from some Catholic laypeople who believe and proceed on the same basis. And in fact numbers of Protestants believe that their Churches are superior–and why else have they set them up expect to have something better? But I don’t necessarily think that this is a vice. Why not believe in your convictions?
I believe that some Protestant are Christians, and I have met and heard of some that I admire very greatly for their faith. One for example is Corrie ten Boom. Still, for what it is worth saying, some Protestants aren’t Christians. Actually, some members of the Unitarian church, for example, are atheists, and I have known some Protestants during my years who do not believe in the divinity of Christ, believing he was only a man on the level of Buddha. I don’t consider those with such beliefs Christians.

 

[rwoehmke]

From an article The Minneapolis, MN Star Tribune of July 10

As such, he deserves the support of other religious leaders, said Rabbi Irwin Kula. "'The host of a radio show based in New York and author of the book “Yearnings: Embracing the Sacred Messiness of Life,” Kula sounded a call for calm last week when some Jews took exception to the pope’s steps to reintroduce the ancient Latin mass known as the Tridentine rite because it includes a Good Friday prayer for the conversion of Jews.

Kula continued in that vein when asked about the new document. “I respect him for saying it,” he said. "He’s passionate about this. He’s saying, ‘Look, folks, here’s my truth, and if you’re not a member of my church, you don’t have to freak out about it.’ "

Kula said that “deep down” believers in every religion think they are right and other people are wrong, but they don’t have the nerve to say it.

Now there is a man with insight. How many Catholics or Protestants for that matter that you know that would be so PC as to say nothing? There are so many folks who silently get their unders in a bunch but don’t let out a peep at the proper time. Of course "his truth"is not necessarily true, but he firmly believes it. You have to respect that.

 

[mom2three]

From an article The Minneapolis, MN Star Tribune of July 10

As such, he deserves the support of other religious leaders, said Rabbi Irwin Kula. "'The host of a radio show based in New York and author of the book “Yearnings: Embracing the Sacred Messiness of Life,” Kula sounded a call for calm last week when some Jews took exception to the pope’s steps to reintroduce the ancient Latin mass known as the Tridentine rite because it includes a Good Friday prayer for the conversion of Jews.

 

[traditionalgal]

I guess it’s just a “see I told you Catholics are crazy” thing.

Many Protestants I know personally do not even consider Catholics to be Christian, so the Pope’s comments have really set them off.

LOL-So true!!! I can’t wait to hear what ones I know will say!

 

[Hipster_Doofus]

I heard the news yesterday from a friend about the Pope’s latest statement on the Church versus the other denominations. In his first 17 years of life this friend was baptised a Lutheran, a Baptist, and a Mormon. Then he read the Koran and it convinced him that the concept of the Trinity was blasphemous, that God had no son, that Jesus was merely a great prophet (like Mohammad and Joseph Smith and sci-fi writer Frank Herbert), and that it is not “true monotheism” when you have “three Gods.” Now he calls himself a Gnostic, and says he doesn’t see how any educated adult could be a Catholic–though he admits he’d convert if the Pope called another Crusade or if “they brought back women priests–like they used to have.” :bigyikes:

And though politically he is in many ways a reactionary, he is also highly politically correct, and believes everyone’s crackpot opinions and religious beliefs are of equal worth, and to take any postion less than that is to be mean and disrespectful of the worth of human beings–not to mention racist and elitist.

I have to hear this relativistic nonsense almost every day from him.

When he broke the news about this latest declaration by the Holy Father, usually referred to in the media as “Pope says Catholicism is the only true church,” he felt it necessary to say vulgar things about him for being “malicious” about other peoples’ religions. I laughed with glee at the news, saying the Pope’s statement was a) nothing less than the truth, and b) no news at all, but a restating of a long-held Catholic position. Then I asked my misguided friend if he’d actually read a whole article about the story or just scanned a headline. Of course, I feel it necessary to play up my Catholic triumphalism around this guy just to antagonize him.

And so this morning I went to my job at a Catholic gift and bookstore. Most of the staff are converts, myself included. and one young woman on the staff was kicking up a great hue and cry over this Benedict business, saying how awful it was, how insensitive, how badly-timed. At one point I heard her whining into her cell phone to a friend, saying, “First he does this Latin thing and now this? He’s gonna drive everybody away from the Church–especially young people. the contemporary music and language and services are the only things they relate to. They can’t relate to Latin and chanting in another language!”

[continued]

 

[Hipster_Doofus]

[continued from Part I]

I later re-opened this controversy, because I was eager to state my opinions for the record as well as to argue with this young woman. I mentioned that I loathed Life Teen masses and wouldn’t attend another one if you paid me. She said she usually attended those masses, loved the music, and that that kind of thing had made her convert. (She was a Baptist preacher’s daughter who had been attending non-denominational services.) I neglected to mention that one Life Teen mass I attended angered me so much I almost backed out of converting to Catholicism and went Orthodox.:byzsoc:

She insisted I was closed-minded because I am not open to going to all kinds of masses now and forever. I said I had been to several Life Teen masses, thought them irreverent, hated everything about them, and knew I never wanted to go to another one, but she claimed that because I still wasn’t open to going to them ever again, that I was closed-minded. Of course, I have never, ever been bothered by the accusation of close-mindedness. I know my own heart and mind.

Then an older colleague–one of the more joyful and overtly Christian people on the staff–mentioned how she liked going to folk masses back in the day.

I said maybe I’m just an old fogey, but that the TLM is how I like to go, though I’m certainly not above attending NO masses whne the TLM is unavailable. I don’t like or trust the charismatic movement or anything that smacks of Pentecostalism. I hate Contemporary Christian Music and praise music. I love old-time black and Southern gospel. I adore classical religious music, Gregorian chanting, etc. Why play hippie Jesus music in church when you can play Bach and Mozart? Why ignore some of the greatest works of art created by man in order to play something that isn’t even good pop music?

And so from here the argument progressed onto the Pope’s latest statements. I explained that he was saying nothing that hadn’t been Church doctrine for many, many years, and that I admired the Pope for having the guts to tell it like it is. This really set the young woman off. She said it was NOT a Church doctrine. I told her to do her homework. She said that even if that is Catholic doctrine the most important principle and duty of the Church is love, and that we shouldn’t be antagonizing and trying to run off other Christians and religions. And then she ran off in a huff.

Later on in the day we got into a discussion of RCIA and marriage classes, and I told the story of a couple who tried to hide from the RCIA director the fact that they were cohabitating, yet slipped up and listed the same address on their forms. My older colleague surprised me by getting annoyed and saying, “What’s wrong with that? Lots of kids live together these days.” I decided to not pursue the topic any further. Some days you just can’t win.

(Please forgive me–I just discovered the full menu of smilies…)

 

[havemercy]

LOL-So true!!! I can’t wait to hear what ones I know will say!

Hopefully news such as this wakes them up to the fact that yes, Catholics are Christians; entirely so.

 

[irenaeus1]

What’s interesting is that this has always been the teaching of the Catholic Church, but whenever it is reiterated, many people get upset because it doesn’t sound politically correct. But if we are intellectually honest about this, this is what many people of any denomination believe about their own denomination. For example, Southern Baptists who are committed Baptists believe that they have the purist form and expression of Christian doctrine; that’s why they are Southern Baptist. Same goes for Presbyterians, Assemblies of God, Pentecostals, etc. That’s why a Southern Baptist goes to a Southern Baptist Church and not a Presbyterian Church. This goes for all denominations. Many Protestants claim that the pope is the anti-Christ and that the Catholic Church preaches a false gospel, but the Catholic Church doesn’t get all upset about it. This is expected. That’s why they are called Protestants - they are protesting the teachings of the Catholic Church. Now of course, there are always people of any denomination who claim that it doesn’t matter what denomination someone belongs to and that the only reason they are a member of that denomination is because they were born into a family who is a member of that denomination, but I’m talking about people who have a genuine conviction for the denomination to which they belong. Many do believe it matters, and the proof that it matters to many, if not most, is that there are thousands of Christian denominations out there.

This also reinforces what JPII and B16 have always said; if you interpret Vatican II as a break from Catholic tradition, then you are misinterpreting Vatican II.

BTW, notice that one of the Orthodox Patriarchs made a positive comment about it saying that it was an honest statement.

In Christ,
Irenaeus

 

[StacieAdy]

Many Protestants I know personally do not even consider Catholics to be Christian, so the Pope’s comments have really set them off.

Of course Catholics are Christians!

Protestants are too :yup:

 

[rpp]

Of course Catholics are Christians!

Protestants are too :yup:

All people who are baptized are Catholics, whether they admit it or not.

 

[Gardening_Mommy]

My husband saw the news first and sent a link to the article (at Fox News; usually better than MSN) under the heading “I love my German Shepherd!” And when we (the sheep) are not heading the right direction, the German Shepherd, under the direction of the Good Shepherd, might nip your heels to get you headed in the proper direction and away from the wolves!

This was CLEARLY stated in Dominus Iesus years ago. You’d think that people involved in ecumenism (both Catholic and Protestant) would’ve read that document, but obviously not. Our local paper, after briefly noting the “controversy” next to a stock photo of the Pope, quoted someone from the World Council of Churches (or some such) complaining, “WELL, I guess the Catholics aren’t so committed to ecumenism as they’ve been pretending.” (or words to that effect)

I have to disagree, though, with those who posted and said that each Protestant believes that their denomination is better than all the others. Many Protestants pick their local church (yes, I know, not technically a “church”…) based on the service, the music, the preaching, the Sunday school, the fellowship, etc. As long as it isn’t Catholic, it’s probably ok, but most of the Protestants I know are not particularly faithful to a denomination (especially not for doctrinal reasons; maybe because “we’ve always been Baptists” or “this is what I’m used to in a service.”).

My in-laws blithely stated that, “Well, everyone gets things wrong, so any given church is only, maybe, 80% right.” So the denomination doesn’t really matter to them. Which left me scratching my head and wondering, “Yeah, but who gives his life for only 80% right? And didn’t Jesus promise us that we’d be led into ‘all truth’?”

 

[abqtenor]

I am going to pray for our Benedict XVI to serve for a very, very long time because it is obvious that he wants to restore the Church to the fundamentals that have been lost in our secular society. We have gotten too lax and too liberal on many issues, and I applaud our Pope for coming out to speak the truth. It isn’t his job to make everyone feel good about themselves.

I thank the good Lord above that we have a Pope such as this in such a sinful time. His leadership and outspoken nature are much needed.

I totally agree.

I also agree that it isn’t the Holy Father’s job to make everyone “feel good”. How many times did our Lord leave his adversaries feeling uncomfortable, unhappy or angry when he spoke the truth?

The truth hurts and it sets us free!

 

[Eileen_T]

IMO, the Timing of this document is quite appropriate.

This looks to be an internal reminder to theologians, clergy and laity alike, that we can’t compromise on Church Teaching. Some people are so fuzzy over ecumenism and what is really meant by the term when used by the CC.

Ecumenism is not just to promote warm fuzzies when we dialogue with other Christian denominations, it is about our separated brethren joining us in the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church established by Christ, which alone possesses the fullness of Truth.

As Metropolitan Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church so insightfully remarked, “For an honest theological dialogue to happen, one should have a clear view of the position of the other side,” because “it helps understand how different we are.”