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Ginny89
Guest
So anyone who acknowledges real threats about massive and sudden inflow of muslims into non-muslim countries is a fundamentalist? Were the fears of the jews in the past prompted by terrorism by jews or fear of certain jewish teachings that many feared would lead to a judisation if the numbers became large enough? I dont think so. I find both this comparison and dismissal of the concern many have about this issue as a simple one of hating another for being different quite wrong, to put it mildly. Are you denying that there is any reason for genuine concern over the reception of large numbers of muslims from the midfle east into non-muslim societies? Thats the opinion I have heard from Cardinal Burke and it seems quite reasonable to me given the FACTS.Perhaps there are degrees of “fundamentalism.” I think a “test” for whether someone is fundamentalist would be if they consider [selected the outgroup religion] to be bad and dangerous because of their religion (or ethnicity). It used to be Jews, but now it seems to be Muslims.
I know a lot of people just have some slightly negative feelings about Muslims, but some other go much further and fear they are taking over, say, Europe or America, the way they used to fear the Jewish take-over. I’ve heard that some think Muslims will be imposing Sharia law in Europe or America (I know a lot of Muslims and they don’t even want to live under Sharia law, but are committed to modern democracy and laws).
However, it seems that Cardinal Burke thinks of Islam as being such a threat. If so, he would be in the category of fundamentalist Catholics. That’s perhaps why Pope Francis made his comment in the context of praising Cardinal Burke as a lawyer.
There is a difference between ordinary conservatism within religion (maintaining chastity and adhering to the strict rules re personal conduct) and fundamentalism (which could include the former, but would also include this fear and loathing of the outgroup).
I’m not sure of your meaning of “ecumenism,” but the ordinary meaning of cooperation & finding common ground among religions (not a total merging of them) does not bring up any “red flags” for me. In fact I like ecumenism and have participated in some interfaith programs – one was “Faith in Action: the South African Experience,” which was a conference at Aurora University in IL involving faith leaders from all faiths (Protestant, Catholic, African-Traditionalist, Jewish, Islam, Hindu) came to explain how they had all joined together and fought against Apartheid in S. Africa. The Jewish rabbi and Muslim imam embraced each other having not seen each other for over 10 years. The Hindu, Ela Gandhi, the granddaughter of Mahatma Gandhi, was a great hit. We all had to strain our ears to hear her very soft words of wisdom.
I don’t see why they couldn’t also be included as “fundamentalists.” It is mainly about this fear and loathing of the outgroup and their beliefs, even more than about strong, rigid adherence to beliefs of one’s own “religion.”
We perhaps all tend to dislike or disavow beliefs that contradict our own beliefs, otherwise we’d chuck ours and take on the others. That’s not the issue, so much as a very strong fear and loathing, almost approaching a need to stamp out the other beliefs and perhaps the people who hold them.
In a way fundamentalism is akin to the authoritarian, prejudiced, and paranoid personality types, with some similar traits. Or, people who have those psychological styles/disorders perhaps tend to be attracted to the more fundamentalist branches of their religions.
(I remember reading something when I taught Psychological Anthropology decades ago about how some international conflicts might be traced to psychological disorders of national leaders.)
Again, I dont know catholics who want to stamp out non-catholics, including muslims. And while you are fine with ecumenism, which I am too (to certain limits) what I mean is that many of those who reject it, catholics, orthodox, protestants, muslims, jews, seem to do so for principled reasons, not out of a sheer hatred of the other. Certainly catholics dont seem to do it for that reason.