Pope sacks Bishop

[Shrill]

Calling whistleblowers ‘Temple Police’? Australian journalists have been fighting for years to have legal protection for not revealing their sources.

Bishop Bill’s letter to his diocese on the weekend said the details of the process were ‘of no import’. Since talking to journalists it seems he’s decided they suddenly are very important.

While he says he hasn’t read the Apostolic visitation report, neither has he made available the copious notes he must surely have taken over the last five years in his discussions with three congregations and the pope.

Here in Toowoomba it’s been all delusionary paranoia and fear-mongering. Just like the last 18 years.

 

[Jehoshua]

Paranoia, hypocrisy and fear mongering appear to be the trend amongst the ultra-liberal crowd. What I percieve is a great hypocrisy where they accuse orthodox catholics of being authoritarian, tyrannical and uncharitable on one hand, where on the other they refuse to act with charity for those who follow traditional orthodox catholic teaching, such as in actively working against those who wish to worship according to the extraordinary form all the while bemoaning so called ‘authoritarianism’ when they are paid the price for their abuses.

Unfortunately in too many dioceses in australia the bishops are truly uncharitable to orthodox catholics, in the Archdiocese of Brisbane for example the latin mass community a few years ago {so i’ve heard} was forced by the archdiocese to close its weekday friday mass (excluding major feasts) [they also have asunday one] which was attended by many people. Likewise you only have to read the archdiocesan catholic newspaper in Brisbane to see rampant hypocrisy and uncharitableness towards orthodox catholicism and traditional catholics in its pages from certain writers.

 

[CWN_News]

A day after Bishop William Morris of Toowoomba said he would retire early following an apostolic visitation, Pope Benedict XVI removed him from office. The May 1 retirement announcement …

More…

 

[StPeterFan]

As far as I am aware he wanted to ‘start a dialogue not a revolution’ regarding women priests which is still a ‘discipline’ therefore, it can be changed.

Then you are not aware well enough mate. This is the Church’s teaching :

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS, Blessed Pope John Paul II

You and your fellow “saddened” Catholics might want to read the above quote 10 or 15 times - especially the underlined part.

 

[StevieD]

This Bishop is confronting the truth that many countries are facing. There is a shortage of priests. All the priests in his diocese bar 3 wrote letters to Rome supporting him.

As far as I am aware he wanted to ‘start a dialogue not a revolution’ regarding women priests which is still a ‘discipline’ therefore, it can be changed. I don’t see why the
dialogue/debate could not be had. He also wanted to discuss the possibility of Anglican priests assisting (IMO unwise).

Where are small country towns in rural Australia going to get their priests from? There are also other parishes around the world who cannot get enough priests. Would we rather see these smaller parishes close down and the Catholics there have no access to the Sacraments. In a country as big as ours, you drive for hours before you reach the next town.

If you read the local link given earlier you would realise that the priests were coming from those countries where traditional Catholicism ‘rules’ and who have plenty of vocations but who apparently ‘misunderstood the role of women in Australian society’ i.e. they don’t support women priests. Good riddance to this man and to all like him. Anglican priests cannot offer authentic sacraments and if you and the bishop don’t believe that then you have excommunicated yourselves automatically. The bishop of Toowomba (!) is not in a position to start any ‘dialogues’ with the Vatican about whether Church teaching is correct or not. It was his job to pass on the teaching not to question it.

 

[paxomatic]

This Bishop is confronting the truth that many countries are facing. There is a shortage of priests. All the priests in his diocese bar 3 wrote letters to Rome supporting him.

As far as I am aware he wanted to ‘start a dialogue not a revolution’ regarding women priests which is still a ‘discipline’ therefore, it can be changed. I don’t see why the
dialogue/debate could not be had. He also wanted to discuss the possibility of Anglican priests assisting (IMO unwise).

.

I used to live in Toowoomba. I actually studied for a couple of years a the Pius XII provinsial Seminary. I stayed at the then Father Morris’ diocese on the Gold Coast in QLD and gave a homily in his Church at this behest.

I have close family in Toowoomba and family who have left Toowoomba because of the deteriorating Catholicity of the Church there. Believe me, it was pretty bad before he became Bishop.

I know that many of the priests in that diocese are involved in scandolous activity, which I won’t go into. He even had lay people at the alter concelebrating the Eucharist and regularly had the general absolution rite of reconciliation throughout the diocese. I will talk to one of my family members, who I know were one of the “Temple Police”, who raised their concerns with the Vatican.

He has lead that flock horribly. I can guarantee that as a result of his obstinancy, and refusal to submit himself to the authority of the Magesterium that many will be lost from the Church in Toowoomba. He really should have been removed a long time ago.

I think the Toowoomba church will take a long time to recover from this, and I hope they put in place a strong and obediant Catholic Bishop who has the knowledge and vigour to revive that church.

There are worse things than a shortage of priests.

 

[manualman]

How many seminarians are in Cardinal Pell’s diocese?

I suspect the answer will be instructive…

 

[ANNE_2]

The thing most significant to Americans is that when Lay people write to the Vatican about Bishop abuses, we can be assured that the Vatican will investigate and give the Bishop the opportunity to stop the abuses and adhere to Church teachings.
(In this case it took 5 years.)

If the Bishop refuses, our Pope will do what is necessary to Save Souls according to Church teachings and Canon Code.

Remember, always write to your Bishop and give him a chance prior to ever writing to the Vatican.
Always include date, time, location, and documentation including quotes from the appropriate Church document.

God Bless Pope Benedict.

 

[chaunceygardner]

Based on what I have been reading about the sexual abuse crisis, the Pope cannot sack a Bishop; they are autonomous and not under the control of the Vatican. At least that is the response that one hears when that question is raised about why the Vatican has not acted more quickly and decisively in removing those Bishops who covered up abuse and covered for abusers. Yet now we find that the Pope CAN and will remove a Bishop. Hmmm.

In a book I am reading about authority and leadership in the church, written more than 20 years ago, the author says that the “Catholic Church is increasingly being forced to choose between its present requirements for ordination and its tradition of eucharistic worship”. He goes on to discuss the situation in many third world countries (and today in developed countries) where Catholics are being “sacramentalized but not evangelized” and that Protestant faiths are stepping in to fill the void.

I was recently on the website of a diocese in the southwestern U.S. where the Bishop is actively recruiting priests to move there; in some cases there is just one priest for an entire county. Bishop Morris must certainly have seen similar situations in his diocese in Australia. Many faithful but few shepherds. (Perhaps the Pope will allow Morris to move to the desert Southwest of the U.S. and be a “help out” in the places that so desperately seek a pastor.)

The author of this book, who could see the developing chasm between preserving traditions in an entrenched and institutionalized church and the realities of the growing shortage of priests, said that “the issue will not go away; it must ultimately be faced.”

But not just yet, says our Pope. The righteousness of the hierarchy is preserved while the faithful (and overworked priests) must suffer the consequences. But the “cry of the poor” and the guidance of the Holy Spirit can be ignored for only so long without causing lasting damage.

Many of the prophets told us that thousands of years ago. As did someone named Jesus.

 

[StPeterFan]

Based on what I have been reading about the sexual abuse crisis, the Pope cannot sack a Bishop; they are autonomous and not under the control of the Vatican.

Then you have been “reading” heterodox garbage. The Bishops are Bishops of the Catholic Church only as long as they are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, the Holy Father.

The Church and its teaching are not based on hearsay or opinions - as all Protestant groups are. Thanks be to God for a Church like His!

 

[Corki]

Based on what I have been reading about the sexual abuse crisis, the Pope cannot sack a Bishop; they are autonomous and not under the control of the Vatican. At least that is the response that one hears when that question is raised about why the Vatican has not acted more quickly and decisively in removing those Bishops who covered up abuse and covered for abusers. Yet now we find that the Pope CAN and will remove a Bishop. Hmmm.

I think you are confusing the permanence of the ordination of a Bishop with his assignments. A Bishop is always a Bishop by virtue of his ordination. However, where and how a Bishop serves is subject to the needs of the Church as directed by the Vatican. The Pope can and does move Bishops from their assignments all the time. Usually a Bishop that is below retirement age is given another assignment but not always and even if he is given another assignment, it is not always to shepherd a diocese.

The author of this book, who could see the developing chasm between preserving traditions in an entrenched and institutionalized church and the realities of the growing shortage of priests, said that “the issue will not go away; it must ultimately be faced.”

But not just yet, says our Pope. The righteousness of the hierarchy is preserved while the faithful (and overworked priests) must suffer the consequences. But the “cry of the poor” and the guidance of the Holy Spirit can be ignored for only so long without causing lasting damage.

I think that is not a fair characterization of the current situation. No one is claiming the issue of fewer priests will just go away. It is not true that the hierarchy is ignoring the need for more priests let alone the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pope has most certainly NOT said “not just yet”. The Pope has worked very hard to increase vocations, to rebuild the clergy and to give the people more and better priests. The issue IS being faced but, like most real solutions, will not be faced by implementing a “quick fix” but by a slow and steady rebuilding.

 

[LOCO]

I stand corrected on the ‘doctrine’ of women priests however I think the Council of Nicea announced that ‘celibacy of priests’ is a ‘discipline’ which therefore can be changed. Why do we have some married priests and others who aren’t allowed to marry, it doesn’t make sense. Why not allow all of them the option to get married. Correct me if I am wrong.

"There is one more fundamental point on Church teachings that confuse many Catholics. Many Catholics believe that some traditions such as the celibacy of the priesthood, use of liturgical vestments, Lenten requirements, and other disciplines are dogmas of the Church that cannot be changed. Such things are not dogmas but disciplines that can be changed by the Church to suit the needs of the faithful. Changing these things will not compromise the Faith because they are not of the faith by necessity."S.M. MIRANDA

Some convert Anglican priests in the UK have been given special exemptions to provide the Sacraments and keep some elements of their Anglican faith? Why can’t that be done here if we have willing Anglican priests who want to convert?

It is sad that so many on this Forum are eager to condemn other Catholics. I haven’t read one conciliatory tone in any of the replies. Whatever happened to praying for lost Catholics.

Was it Gandhi who said 'I like your Christ, your Christians not so much, they are so unlike your Christ"?

 

[curlycool89]

I stand corrected on the ‘doctrine’ of women priests however I think the Council of Nicea announced that ‘celibacy of priests’ is a ‘discipline’ which therefore can be changed. Why do we have some married priests and others who aren’t allowed to marry, it doesn’t make sense. Why not allow all of them the option to get married. Correct me if I am wrong.

"There is one more fundamental point on Church teachings that confuse many Catholics. Many Catholics believe that some traditions such as the celibacy of the priesthood, use of liturgical vestments, Lenten requirements, and other disciplines are dogmas of the Church that cannot be changed. Such things are not dogmas but disciplines that can be changed by the Church to suit the needs of the faithful. Changing these things will not compromise the Faith because they are not of the faith by necessity."S.M. MIRANDA

Some convert Anglican priests in the UK have been given special exemptions to provide the Sacraments and keep some elements of their Anglican faith? Why can’t that be done here if we have willing Anglican priests who want to convert?

It is sad that so many on this Forum are eager to condemn other Catholics. I haven’t read one conciliatory tone in any of the replies. Whatever happened to praying for lost Catholics.

There are many reasons for keeping the discipline of celibacy. And by the way, priests cannot be married after they are ordained. Being ordained is an impediment to a valid marriage.

One of the reasons is ease of movement (easier to move 1 guy then a family). Another is commitment. Maybe we could use some married priests, but the trade off will be a less accessible priest. People complain about how inaccessible priests are right now, just imagine if they also had a family to look after.

Was it Gandhi who said 'I like your Christ, your Christians not so much, they are so unlike your Christ"?

Look, Gandhi was a pretty great guy, but I hate that quote. I’m just going to say it, Gandhi doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. Gandhi was a Hindu, not a Christian, so to be blunt he obviously did not understand Christ. If he did, he done what people have done for centuries after finding Jesus, he would have converted. He did not, therefore I find it hard to believe that he actually understood.

 

[sing4joy]

I believe that the Vocations “crisis” is directly linked to disobedience among the ordained. That disobedience ends up confusing parishioners and stifling the Holy Spirit. They need to get those 178 either out or in obedience. Watch the number of vocations rise.

 

[1holycatholic]

I stand corrected on the ‘doctrine’ of women priests however I think the Council of Nicea announced that ‘celibacy of priests’ is a ‘discipline’ which therefore can be changed. Why do we have some married priests and others who aren’t allowed to marry, it doesn’t make sense. Why not allow all of them the option to get married. Correct me if I am wrong.

Ordained men may not marry. That is a matter of doctrine.

Married men may be ordained. That is a matter of discipline.

Some convert Anglican priests in the UK have been given special exemptions to provide the Sacraments and keep some elements of their Anglican faith? Why can’t that be done here if we have willing Anglican priests who want to convert?

It is sad that so many on this Forum are eager to condemn other Catholics. I haven’t read one conciliatory tone in any of the replies. Whatever happened to praying for lost Catholics.

Was it Gandhi who said 'I like your Christ, your Christians not so much, they are so unlike your Christ"?

Anglican converts to the Church do not “keep some elements of their Anglican faith” they hold and profess the Catholic faith.

 

[Tigg]

This Bishop is confronting the truth that many countries are facing. There is a shortage of priests. All the priests in his diocese bar 3 wrote letters to Rome supporting him.

Where are small country towns in rural Australia going to get their priests from? There are also other parishes around the world who cannot get enough priests. Would we rather see these smaller parishes close down and the Catholics there have no access to the Sacraments. In a country as big as ours, you drive for hours before you reach the next town.

I recently read that if there wasn’t such a loss of faith, (due much in part to pride and dissident teachings,) and we could stop the feminization of the CC, there would be no priest shortage. Forget the women and get down on your knees in Eucharistic Adoration!

 

[chaunceygardner]

I think you are confusing the permanence of the ordination of a Bishop with his assignments. A Bishop is always a Bishop by virtue of his ordination. However, where and how a Bishop serves is subject to the needs of the Church as directed by the Vatican. The Pope can and does move Bishops from their assignments all the time. Usually a Bishop that is below retirement age is given another assignment but not always and even if he is given another assignment, it is not always to shepherd a diocese.

Thanks for the explanation. In this case it was certainly not “moving” or “reassigning” a Bishop but punishment for perceived faults or unorthodoxy. What bothers me is that the Pope will do that with a Bishop who asks questions that apparently are not to be asked, but is slow to do anything about Bishops who have violated the most basic moral tenets and commandments of God (and who then rationalize it or show little remorse). This is a hollow victory for orthodoxy and the “temple police” since it could in the long run damage the Church much more than it helps.

I think that is not a fair characterization of the current situation. No one is claiming the issue of fewer priests will just go away. It is not true that the hierarchy is ignoring the need for more priests let alone the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pope has most certainly NOT said “not just yet”. The Pope has worked very hard to increase vocations, to rebuild the clergy and to give the people more and better priests. The issue IS being faced but, like most real solutions, will not be faced by implementing a “quick fix” but by a slow and steady rebuilding.

Well, as the Pope and his cohort are intently hammering away in one part of the ship of the Church trying to slowly rebuild the priesthood, storms, winds and rocky shoals are quickly eroding and weakening the integrity of the structure beneath them, much faster and more seriously than they apparently understand. And while that is happening the Pope is jettisoning the seamen who could help sail the ship through the storms and the craftsmen who could repair the damage, while also ignoring the faithful on board who are willing to help bail it out (many of whom are instead loading the life boats).

Ignoring the real problems and exiling the messengers who are warning of impending disaster will not solve anything. That lesson, taught to the Church many times in its history, has yet to be fully learned.

 

[ishii]

Parishioners feel angry as ‘temple police’ blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris’ downfall
A GANG of right-wing Catholics, dubbed the “Temple police”, are being blamed for the downfall of Toowoomba Bishop William Morris.

The group, which allegedly travelled around parishes to spy on progressive priests who do not toe the Vatican line, was believed to be involved in the popular priest’s ousting.

The Pope last night renounced Bishop Morris’ leadership over his support for ordaining women as priests among other liberal reforms.
…

Notice too how the orthodox Catholics are derisively referred to as “right-wing” Catholics.

Ishii

 

[sing4joy]

Chauncey, after reading many of your posts, I realize that you do not know very much about Catholic teaching. Maybe you have observed a lot of lax practice and think that you are seeing the truth of Catholic Doctrine. May I suggest that you watch Fr. John Corapi, or read any of the great apologists—like St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas. Or read the Fathers of the Church. Or some of the current people----Scott Hahn, Tim Staples…there are a lot.

I suggest this because you have received very incorrect information and I so much want you to understand the joy and greatness of the Church that Jesus Christ founded. Popes and the Magesterium the teaching arm of the Church] don’t make the changes that some people say are necessary to modernize the Church because if Jesus had wanted it that way, He would have founded it that way.

I don’t want a Church full of “modern” teachings. Today’s morals are not God’s morals. All of the cries for relevance and being politically correct stem from pride----that was Lucifer’s downfall and he is still trying to pull down the Church. But Jesus said that “the gates of hell will not prevail against [His Church]”

 

[ANNE_2]

Chauncey, please remember that Pope Benedict XVI has only held the position of Pope since 2005.
He is a magnificent scholar, extremely intelligent, and doing a wonderful job in working to insure things are being done according to the teachings of the Catholic Faith.

Morris has already been replaced on a temporary basis with another Bishop.
We don’t have to worry about the Vatican not understanding a Priest shortage in any given Country. The Vatican gave the bad Bishop enough time to repent, correct his statements that were in error, and enough time to find a replacement if needed (5 years).

All Bishops, Priests, and us Catholic laity must adhere to the teachings in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” revised in accordance with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II.
This is the only catechism from the Magisterium.

Bishops and Priests may not teach anything contrary to the CCC. Those who obstinately do are heretics or schismatics.
Priestly celebacy, no women priests, etc are all covered in the CCC.
If Morris did not encourage those in his Diocese to read the CCC, now you know why he kept his people ignorant in certain matters.

There are no conservative or liberal Catholics; only good Catholics and bad Catholics, and the answers are within the CCC for everyone to view.