Pope Says Christianity Trumps Secularism in Building Good Societies
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Holly3278
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The Holy Father is most definitely right and I completely agree with him as I usually do on the vast majority, if not all, things. Christianity is most certainly better at building better societies than secularism. We must have faith in God if we are going to be truly good people. A person without faith can be a moral person but a person with faith can be a moral person much more easily and can also be even more moral than the person without faith. This is why I believe Christianity is better at building society than secularism. If people have faith and faith makes them better people then the more people who have faith will mean more better people which will also mean a better society in general. 
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atheistgirl
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I completely disagree.
And as a point of information for you, ALL people without faith are still moral beings, not that they can be moral as you stated, they are moral. Every human being on this planet has morals.
Sarah x
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OriginalJS
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Raises a lot of questions, doesn’t it. Does any country have a purely Christian society or a purely secular society? Don’t most countries have societies that mix religious and secular elements? Does Christian society mean a theocracy? Is society in the US Christian or secular? Mixed? Is saying Christianity trumps secularism a criticism of Western Europe’s movement toward secularism in the 20th century? Whose tradition of Christianity? Lots to think about.
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atheistgirl
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I would guess as it came from the Pope, and catholics believe they have the fullness of truth, he is refering to the catholic - possibly orthodox - view of christianity
As for living in a theocracy
Well, a glance at the Holy Roman Empire and a quick look to the current East and Middle East tells us exactly why that idea should never be supported
Sarah x
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jam070406
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Sarah,I completely disagree.
And as a point of information for you, ALL people without faith are still moral beings, not that they can be moral as you stated, they are moral. Every human being on this planet has morals.
Sarah x
That is because we are all made in the image and likeness of God. And the law is written on our hearts.
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atheistgirl
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That is what you believe, and I repect that.Sarah,
That is because we are all made in the image and likeness of God. And the law is written on our hearts.
However, it’s not what I believe; I have a very different view as to where our morality comes from. Expounding on it will derail this topic but I have expressed my views elsewhere on relevant morality type threads.
Sarah x
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irishpatrick
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Your views on where morals comes from is completely pertinent here.That is what you believe, and I repect that.
However, it’s not what I believe; I have a very different view as to where our morality comes from. Expounding on it will derail this topic but I have expressed my views elsewhere on relevant morality type threads.
Sarah x
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irishpatrick
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I don’t think it is all that complicated. Christianity is a much higher moral order (the higest actually) than secularism. The closer a nation gets to authentic Christianity, the more moral they will be.
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atheistgirl
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LiveCatholic
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This objection is grossly inapplicable because (1) the data culled from Shermer’s blog only treat theists or ‘people with a belief in a creator’–(1.1) which is hardly Christianity, and (1.2) would admit an array of beliefs antithetical to Christianity.
The material in Shermer’s blog, frequently cited by atheist polemicists, slips further into dubiousness because (2) the constituent elements of religiosity quantified by the survey are subjective, arbitrary, and therefore questionable. For instance in our Catholic context, ‘Biblical literalism’ and answers that would indicate an attitude of ‘Biblical literalism’ are outside of or antithetical to the Catholic Christian understanding of the Bible.
Finally, (3) the Holy Father’s thesis treats two very distinct world views: Christianity and secularism. This cannot be encompassed by simple theist/atheist, or believer/nonbeliever dichotomies.
Personally, I agree with the statement that a Christian can be more moral than a secularist, because–like the dual law dictated by Jesus Christ (love God, love your neighbor)–the believing Christian will do right by his fellow man, and the supernatural order that we believe structures all reality.
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LiveCatholic
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‘Glances’ and ‘quick looks’ reduce the serious lessons we might glean from comparative politics to argument-winning barbs like this.As for living in a theocracy
Well, a glance at the Holy Roman Empire and a quick look to the current East and Middle East tells us exactly why that idea should never be supported
Btw, regarding your signature, this is certainly a ‘catholic’ forum, but it is actually intended to be a ‘Catholic’ forum.
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LiveCatholic
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This confuses the state of being en-moraled with adhering an to extra-personal moral code or system.I completely disagree.
And as a point of information for you, ALL people without faith are still moral beings, not that they can be moral as you stated, they are moral. Every human being on this planet has morals.
Sarah x
Because it is systematic (and is therefore balanced) and extra-personal (and therefore outside of one’s own whims or circumstance) the intuition is that it is more objective. This is the strength of the conventional definition of ‘morals’ over your own usage.
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buffalo
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No matter what you believe you were not born in a vacuum. The Judeo- Christian influence is already built in to you.I completely disagree.
And as a point of information for you, ALL people without faith are still moral beings, not that they can be moral as you stated, they are moral. Every human being on this planet has morals.
Sarah x
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LiveCatholic
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“Pope Benedict XVI told the bishops of New Zealand and the South Pacific on Dec. 17 that the Christian faith provides the best foundation for society, and that promoting the New Evangelization is the best way to build a Christian culture.”
What I think–perhaps at variance with AtheistSarah and others–is the most interesting claim here is the second claim made by the Holy Father: ‘New Evangelization is the best way to build a Christian culture.’
What makes the New Evangelization the best way to effect this? Would the original Christianization of Europe be considered a prototype for Evangelization? If not, would the shape of Pope Benedict’s ‘Christian culture’ be different from the generally-accepted ‘Christian cultures’ (ex: feudal/Medieval Europe) of the past?
What I think–perhaps at variance with AtheistSarah and others–is the most interesting claim here is the second claim made by the Holy Father: ‘New Evangelization is the best way to build a Christian culture.’
What makes the New Evangelization the best way to effect this? Would the original Christianization of Europe be considered a prototype for Evangelization? If not, would the shape of Pope Benedict’s ‘Christian culture’ be different from the generally-accepted ‘Christian cultures’ (ex: feudal/Medieval Europe) of the past?
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atheistgirl
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Lol … no it’s not
You might like to think so, but you would be very much mistaken lol.Sarah x
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buffalo
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Probably a good time to read The Irrational Atheist.
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BernardM
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Unless you are living in Papua New Guinea with a completely isolated tribe that has never had contact with Europeans then yes you are influenced by them. As you are posting on an internet forum then we can assume you live in a Western first world nation and are reaping the full benefits of 2000+ years of Judeo-Christian philosophy. This has shaped everything from the type of government, to modern science, to societal norms. You may not wish to deny this, but it does not make it false.Lol … no it’s not
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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Buffolo’s point, as I read it, when he/she used the words ‘build into [me]’ was I have a conscience because of the judeo-christian influences that are ‘built into’’ me! I may be mistaken. I dont deny the influence of the christian religions on the geography, politics, sociology, etc of the modern world. It’s quite obvious when you look around you.
My point was he/she is wrong in claiming that the judeo-christian influences have anything to do with my heritage or any kind of ‘‘spiritual’’ formation I may have had, or anyone in my history may have had
Very wrong indeed
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atheistgirl
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Day/ Beale (why would an author not publish under his own name on this subject?) is more polemical that Hitchens. And he doesnt believe in the fact of evolution either
Tells you all you need to know really!Sarah x
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