Pope Says Christianity Trumps Secularism in Building Good Societies

[atheistgirl]

Man reaches for a source of truth which lies beyond himself – he can’t help it!

I dont think this source of truth lies beyond man, I think it is firmly rooted within man. Faith based systems see the commonality of values all men share as a hidden ‘‘voice’’ of God written on everyones heart, hence why all people, regardless of geography, faith, status or whatever, agree wholesale murdering and stealing is wrong. (With the obvious exception of those with mental illness and those few people here who said that is exactly how they would behave were it not for their blief in God!)! I see this commonality as evidence of our evolved sense of morals.

You may deny God’s existence, but if you do, you will reach for a human desire as your highest value.

Well, I value family, honesty, integrity, empathy, friendship, love, kindness, gentleness, creativity, risk taking (especially in my business life)… some of which required a huge amount of self sacrifice at times … all very human qualities and desires and all essential to live a happy healthy meaningful and prosperous life.

What other values am I missing by not having a god or God to reach out for?

Sarah x

 

[Poelice]

You have to be careful what you consider to be “good” societies. Godless societies such as the one’s in Scandinavian countries are rich, have low crime, and have a high standard of living, but that’s not the measure of a good society.

The measure of a good society is whether or not the society adheres to God’s Word.

 

[Armyvet007]

I have no idea. I dont get to see their posts, and with respect, please dont quote the posts either as I have no interest in what they say or conducting a conversation with them. I find it best to ignore those who’s only purpose is to rile and disparage people from some perceived sense of smug superiority rather than wanting to engage fruitfully with someone who has genuine and honest questions and doubtless misunderstandings. No, these people are simply best ignored.

Rile and disparage? Please. LiveCatholic’s post countered yours. Rile and disparage /=disproving your point. If you wish to review a post by a smug individual, I suggest you review your own in which you tried to bring the HRE and the Middle East into the conversation. In fact, your mentioning the Middle East only highlights the damage secularism can do. The current state of affairs in that region is due to the adoption of secularism [mainly in the form of nationalism] in the post WW2/colonial period.

I’m actively involved with Amnesty International and have been for many years. I’m well aware of the human rights abuses that go on everywhere, and I deplore them in equal measure, be they in China or Tibet. The abuses are relatively well known with regards to China, less well known are things such as the Losar Festival, where monks routinely flogged people to death!

The abuses in Tibet are being conducted by the Chinese controled government of Tibet, not by the theocratic (and real) government of Tibet. Another example that runs counter to your own argument. China [a secular based state] having a worse record then the exile government of Tibet [a religous based state].

I support both China and Tibet in any measures they take to enhance human rights for all and deplore and condemn any human rights abuses where-ever they take place.

That being said, I’m actually waiting for a direct response to my counterpoints of your statements. Given that this is a very tame forum which is moderated rather well for hostile posting, I suggest you either actually attempt to understand the conversation; or keep your mental blinders on and seek conversations elsewhere.
Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

The measure of a good society is whether or not the society adheres to God’s Word.

So by that definition, despite all the human rights abuses, you think a muslim theocracy is a ‘‘good society’’ because after all, they literally hang on every word of their God???

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

LiveCatholic’s post countered yours. Rile and disparage /=disproving your point.

No he didnt disprove my point. He merely insulted and used inflamatory language, example, insinuating it was quite a good thing my ancestors were abused and starved and enslaved because they were savages anyhow! You are the one that needs to read without your blinkers on!

The abuses in Tibet are being conducted by the Chinese controled government of Tibet, not by the theocratic (and real) government of Tibet. Another example that runs counter to your own argument. China [a secular based state] having a worse record then the exile government of Tibet [a religous based state].

Lol … I’m talking about Tibet post 1912 and pre 1950. You need to refresh your history, I thought you were quite historically aware, but it seems not. 2 million secular rupees paid to the Christian country Britain was rather a small price to pay don’t you think to let the monks amputate limbs wholesale and flog to death - so much for human rights and treating prisoners and accused with humanity!

I suggest you either actually attempt to understand the conversation; or keep your mental blinders on and seek conversations elsewhere.

I suggest you take your own advice. As you are another who cannot conduct themselves with civility, and who seem to think because a counter opinion is posited, the point is proven and must be accepted, the best place for you to take future conversations, is to my ignore list

Perhaps your frustration is borne from the fact you cant make a coherent, knock down argument, nor point to a theocracy anywhere anytime in history that did not include monumental human rights abuses, thus my point stands, but either way - Welcome to my ignore list

Sarah x

 

[LiveCatholic]

So by that definition, despite all the human rights abuses, you think a muslim theocracy is a ‘‘good society’’ because after all, they literally hang on every word of their God???

Sarah x

This person has issued some seriously misguided statements and appears to have been banned because of the likelihood that they’re an agent provocateur or troll. See below:

Sometimes genocide is a GOOD thing. When God does or allows it, there is always a good purpose. Remember, God is good, whatever he does is good. I’m sure he had good reasons for drowning infants in the Deluge.

In any event, for the sake of argument, since the person who made the comment was of a Christian background, it would be reasonable to assume that they would not find a Muslim ‘theocracy’ acceptable. However, a Christian theocracy would be.

Is this inconsistent?–no. Why?–Islam and Christianity are structurally and substantially incomparable, despite being in the larger category of ‘world religions.’

 

[Tenofovir]

I don’t hate Catholicism or Christianity! Purlease!

And I’m pretty sure if you go through my posts, you’ll see I DO capitalize these words, including Pope, etc, as they are proper nouns and should be capitalized!!! Where I haven’t it’s nothing more than a typo. I type fast, and very often don’t reread what I’ve written due to time constraints, or I’m posting in between doing other things on the computer.

If you’re desperately looking for a conspiracy theory I’m sure you could relook at those lunar landings!

Sarah x

I don’t see how one person not capitalising certain things implies there is a conspiracy theory.

I actually see many internet atheists not capitalising “God”, “Christianity”, “Catholic”, etc. The hate does run deep among some of them.

 

[Tenofovir]

Oh look … I’ve made two posts and capitalized Christian in both

Now that you have drawn this to my attention - although I have and do capitalize these words - I will pay particular attention to when I type them and ensure, to the best of my ability, they are always capitalized.

However, this will slow my typing down a nano-second or two, and as a result I will have to type faster after those words appear in text, resiltung in posablie mure spollink ellers thain usuil

Sarah x

LOL, ok, ok, it’s up to you. I was just curious, that’s all.

 

[atheistgirl]

LOL, ok, ok, it’s up to you. I was just curious, that’s all.

Well, I think it would have been better if you simply asked the question, and waited for my answer, without adding on:

Maybe you hate Catholicism and Christianity so much,

I hope you can see I don’t hate any faith, church or religion, and they were no more than lazy fast typing and typos.

As far as I’m aware, since you drew the matter to my attention, I have capitalized these words. They should be capitalized anyhow as they are proper nouns. You are prefectly correct in drawing my attention to my occasional bad grammar but could have left out the insinuation implied in the question that I am doing it deliberately out of some kind of ‘‘hatred’’ of Christianity or Catholicism.

Sarah x