Pope says he's saddened by 'perfect' Catholics who despise others

[philipl]

It is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

papalencyclicals.net/bon08/b8unam.htm

WOW, real soon we will start hearing about how not agreeing with the Pope on all matters will place your soul in peril and you will have excommunicated yourself. Give it another year or two and this will come from someone high in the church.

I wonder what is going to happen when we get a new Pope that is from Africa? Will the same people now demanding we blindly follow Francis also blindly follow a traditional african Pope?

 

[M-Dent]

Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary are a religious order. They are listed on the Website of the Diocese of Worchester, MA

worcesterdiocese.org/religious-communities

Are you sure they are “not approved by the pope”?

And yes, according to their website, they do have an agenda:
“Welcome to the monastery of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, two separate communities of Brothers and Sisters living traditional religious lives in the spirituality of Saint Louis Marie de Montfort’s “True Devotion to Mary.” We are faithful to the Holy Father, Pope Francis, and loyal to the Latin Tridentine Mass which is offered daily here in Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel”

Be careful! If you standard to even read someone’s writings about the faith is that they be “approved by the pope”, we’ll have to hold you to the same standard. Please provide proof your posts and opinions about the faith are approved by the pope!

Just for clarification, the website linked from the Diocese of Worchester:

Please note: Saint Benedict Center in Still River is not associated or affiliated with St. Benedict Center in Richmond, New Hampshire or catholicism.org

The website linked earlier was from the NH Saint Benedict Center. The NH Bishop notes regarding the Saint Benedict Center.

 

[matthewww]

Don’t know if this is relevant, but my parish priest always say this “love first, teach second.”

Christ loved the heck out of sinners, and after that, these sinners converted.

 

[PluniaZ]

WOW, real soon we will start hearing about how not agreeing with the Pope on all matters will place your soul in peril and you will have excommunicated yourself. Give it another year or two and this will come from someone high in the church.

I wonder what is going to happen when we get a new Pope that is from Africa? Will the same people now demanding we blindly follow Francis also blindly follow a traditional african Pope?

Reverence and obedience for the Pope have been required by the Church for 2000 years. That will never change.

People who have a problem with this: Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Atheists

 

[shockerfan]

Just for clarification, the website linked from the Diocese of Worchester:

The website linked earlier was from the NH Saint Benedict Center. The NH Bishop notes regarding the Saint Benedict Center.

Thanks for the clarification. To tie this back to a point I made earlier: I referenced an article written by a brother from the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary on the levels of magisterial teachings. That article itself referenced numerous papal / Church documents on the subject and looked to be a fair summary of the Church’s comments and teachings on infallibility. The article was discounted out of hand, not for what it said, but for who the author was associated with. This is a distraction from the main issue: The pope’s infallibility has limits…limits according to the teachings of the Church.

The important point from your link is that “canonically these individuals remain in good standing with the Catholic Church”. Every Catholic who has not been imposed with the penalty of excommunication would also be an individual in good standing with the Catholic Church…including CAF posters.

Therefore, if someone wants to discount what was written in an article by a Brother of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart, they should do so by what was actually written (providing citations refuting the author’s position), and not by their perceptions of the author’s standing with the Church.

 

[pianistclare]

Reverence and obedience for the Pope have been required by the Church for 2000 years. That will never change.

People who have a problem with this: Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Atheists

Amen.
The problem lies with people who possess FAR less instruction in the faith making these pronouncements. One of the Pope’s titles is VICAR OF CHRIST.
What about that don’t people “get”. An enormous college of Cardinals elected him. Keep in mind that folks who hate the church also like to twist words and report in slanted ways. Why would faithful Catholic allow themselves to be used like this?
I fear the devil is having a field day puffing up the egos of those who cry foul every time the Pope speaks. People have been arguing about Scripture translations for centuries Same deal with Spanish, Italian, and ways of speaking in each of those cultures. The more we THINK we know, the less we sometimes know.

But thank you Plunia, for always taking the road of one who wants to be faithful and not critical.

 

[Brendan]

Catholics who consider themselves to be ‘perfect’? Wouldn’t that be the ones who do not regularly attend Confession.

Those that do, by definition, would not consider themselves to be perfect.

So I wonder who the Pope is talking about?

 

[Irishmom2]

Therefore, if someone wants to discount what was written in an article by a Brother of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart, they should do so by what was actually written (providing citations refuting the author’s position), and not by their perceptions of the author’s standing with the Church.

Here’s the thing though. There are people that would take the word of an actual priest, or a deacon, and in some cases, a brother **over ** the word of an “ordinary” poster. If in fact their credential are not true, their words are suspect as well.

 

[Joe_5859]

The problem with stories like this is that people immediately jump to fill in the blanks with their preconceived notions. That’s not helpful and it leads to a lot of needless hand-wringing and a lot of uncharitable assumptions about our Holy Father.

I don’t know why people rush to think that the pope is insulting them personally and/or all conservative/traditional/orthodox/whatever other group of Catholics.

Pope Francis said “And I think about so many Catholics who think they are perfect and scorn others. This is sad.”

So the question is: Do you think you are perfect? Do you scorn others? If so, then, yes, Pope Francis is talking about you. And in this case, it should rub you the wrong way.

But if not, then why take it as a personal insult? Why assume he is a rascally “liberal” who is lambasting all those “conservatives” yet again?

Honestly, though, his admonition does apply to all of us to some extent or another. We should all do some soul-searching about how we treat others and what our level of pride is. We can all be guilty of self-righteousness and scorn. We all need to guard against that.

Of course, I realize it doesn’t help when posters start baiting people with comments about, “Wow, the pope is talking about the vast majority of CAF members. He’s got them pegged. Not me, of course. I’m in the minority that doesn’t think I’m perfect or scorn others. Wow, that makes me so much better than these ‘other’ pharisaical posters here…”

Yes, the Pope was talking to all of us. Rather than be insulted, we should be repentant. And then rejoice in God’s mercy and love that is extended to each of us. And our neighbors.

 

[pianistclare]

Catholics who consider themselves to be ‘perfect’? Wouldn’t that be the ones who do not regularly attend Confession.

Those that do, by definition, would not consider themselves to be perfect.

So I wonder who the Pope is talking about?

OK. One more time
People who BELIEVE they are perfect.
You can’t tell me you’ve NEVER ever run into parishioners like that, come on.

 

[shockerfan]

Here’s the thing though. There are people that would take the word of an actual priest, or a deacon, and in some cases, a brother **over ** the word of an “ordinary” poster. If in fact their credential are not true, their words are suspect as well.

I get your point…however, the document was well cited, unlike most posters

I’ll find a more well known source (but that does not change my main point…which is still accurate)

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Years ago there was a petition taken out and posted in this very forum, telling the USCCB’s to deny Holy Communion to the Catholic Politicians, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and John Kerry.

It is this very thing the Pope is addressing in the article, those Catholics who will throw proverbial stones at sinners who don’t follow the letter of the law as they themselves do.

Jim

 

[M-Dent]

I get your point…however, the document was well cited, unlike most posters

I’ll find a more well known source (but that does not change my main point…which is still accurate)

They may make valid points yet they are not a religious order, in the proper sense of the word (important to be clarified). More a community of laity who live by their own chosen set of rules and who have created a worship space. The good Bishop is providing for their spiritual care supporting the worship space.

 

[Joe_5859]

Years ago there was a petition taken out and posted in this very forum, telling the USCCB’s to deny Holy Communion to the Catholic Politicians, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and John Kerry.

It is this very thing the Pope is addressing in the article, those Catholics who will throw proverbial stones at sinners who don’t follow the letter of the law as they themselves do.

Jim

I think this example is only going to lead to a distracting tangent. It’s not the best example because we’re not talking strictly about sin and perceived “perfection” but also about interpretations of canon law as pertains to the public, ongoing stances of public officials.

Not that there aren’t proponents of this that are guilty of what the Pope describes. I’m sure there are. But not everyone who feels that way would fall into this category.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think this example is only going to lead to a distracting tangent. It’s not the best example because we’re not talking strictly about sin and perceived “perfection” but also about interpretations of canon law as pertains to the public, ongoing stances of public officials.

Not that there aren’t proponents of this that are guilty of what the Pope describes. I’m sure there are. But not everyone who feels that way would fall into this category.

Like posts about the Slaves Of Mary and BroIgnatius aren’t a distracting tangent.

Jim

 

[abucs]

Catholics who consider themselves to be ‘perfect’? Wouldn’t that be the ones who do not regularly attend Confession.

Those that do, by definition, would not consider themselves to be perfect.

So I wonder who the Pope is talking about?

Yes, I have never met a Catholic who was anywhere near claiming to be perfect.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yes, I have never met a Catholic who was anywhere near claiming to be perfect.

Me neither, but I’ve met plenty who’ll point fingers at others who are not.

Jim

 

[Brendan]

OK. One more time
People who BELIEVE they are perfect.
You can’t tell me you’ve NEVER ever run into parishioners like that, come on.

And anyone who regularly attends confession, by definition, does not fall into that category.

They would not believe that they are perfect. They would believe that they are sinners in need of mercy. Hence the need for confession.

Someone who recognizes that they sin also, by definition, recognizes that they are not perfect, as sin is a failure and thus an imperfection. Even a tendency to sin is an imperfection. And one who recognizes that, by definition, recognizes it as an imperfection.

 

[Joe_5859]

Like posts about the Slaves Of Mary and BroIgnatius aren’t a distracting tangent.

Jim

Oh, those are tangents, too. I just skipped over them as I was late to the thread. I was just trying to head off what I thought to be the inevitable responses to your post.

 

[Peebo]

And anyone who regularly attends confession, by definition, does not fall into that category.
**
They would not believe that they are perfect. They would believe that they are sinners in need of mercy. Hence the need for confession.**

Someone who recognizes that they sin also, by definition, recognizes that they are not perfect, as sin is a failure and thus an imperfection. Even a tendency to sin is an imperfection. And one who recognizes that, by definition, recognizes it as an imperfection.

That’s not necessarily so…someone who attends confession on a regular basis might consider them self a “perfect” Catholic for that very reason…