Pope says marriage can only be between a man and a woman and ‘we cannot change it’
- Status
T
TheAmazingGrace
Guest
L
Luke6_37
Guest
Sounds like Pope Francis recognizes that civil unions exist…
I wonder if in the original language, he used the word that word be better translated as “matrimony” rather than “marriage”.
L
Luke6_37
Guest
Let’s now move on to discussing what is really important…
What sins of the mind do we find on CAF?
T
Tim_D
Guest
“The most minor sins are the sins of the flesh,” he said, because the flesh is weak. “The most dangerous sins are those of the mind”, and confessors should spend more time asking if a person prays, reads the Gospel and seeks the Lord.
Did not Our Lady of Fatima state that many go to hell because of sexual sins???
Did not Our Lady of Fatima state that many go to hell because of sexual sins???
L
Luke6_37
Guest
That doesn’t mean more don’t go to hell for other reasons.
T
Tim_D
Guest
I suppose. I just think it dangerous to say that sins of the flesh are minor. They certainly aren’t.That doesn’t mean more don’t go to hell for other reasons.
A
Allegra
Guest
Sins of the flesh often stem from sins in the mind. I think his point was that if you place your effort on the sins of the mind, the since of the flesh will naturally be less attractive to the sinner and probably stop on their own. Whereas, if you concentrate on the sins of the flesh, but neglect the sins of the mind, it is a much more difficult battle because the mind is always working against you.
3
3DOCTORS
Guest
The deadly sins tend to go hand in hand. Avarice, envy, gluttony, lust, etc. The more of them you commit, the more you expose yourself to the temptation to commit the others. I’m sure the Holy Father didn’t intend to say go ahead and commit ANY sin whatsoever, though people will hurry to misquote or blow out of context and proportion what he said to serve their own ends. Sin is sin. Sin is bad. Once you cross the line into mortal sin you’ve broken your relationship with God and others. You need to repent and seek forgiveness.
More importantly, to truly undergo conversion to holiness, which is a positive challenge, one must go “above and beyond,” not have the mindset like on a T-shirt I saw that said “Dear God, how much can I get away with and still get to Heaven?”
If you think this way, you’re going about it all wrong.
Jesus makes it pretty clear: "When you have done all you have been commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants; we have done what we were obliged to do.’” Luke 17:10
More importantly, to truly undergo conversion to holiness, which is a positive challenge, one must go “above and beyond,” not have the mindset like on a T-shirt I saw that said “Dear God, how much can I get away with and still get to Heaven?”
If you think this way, you’re going about it all wrong.Jesus makes it pretty clear: "When you have done all you have been commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants; we have done what we were obliged to do.’” Luke 17:10
J
jeannetherese
Guest
It’s helpful to have this clarification from Pope Francis at this time. It lines up with our bishops who also noted that marriage is different from a civil union when this issue arose in Washington state.
The quote below is from the USCCB:
usccb.org/news/2015/15-103.cfm
"Regardless of what a narrow majority of the Supreme Court may declare at this moment in history, the nature of the human person and marriage remains unchanged and unchangeable. Just as Roe v. Wade did not settle the question of abortion over forty years ago, Obergefell v. Hodges does not settle the question of marriage today. Neither decision is rooted in the truth, and as a result, both will eventually fail. Today the Court is wrong again. It is profoundly immoral and unjust for the government to declare that two people of the same sex can constitute a marriage.
The unique meaning of marriage as the union of one man and one woman is inscribed in our bodies as male and female. The protection of this meaning is a critical dimension of the “integral ecology” that Pope Francis has called us to promote. Mandating marriage redefinition across the country is a tragic error that harms the common good and most vulnerable among us, especially children. The law has a duty to support every child’s basic right to be raised, where possible, by his or her married mother and father in a stable home.
Jesus Christ, with great love, taught unambiguously that from the beginning marriage is the lifelong union of one man and one woman. As Catholic bishops, we follow our Lord and will continue to teach and to act according to this truth."
L
Luke6_37
Guest
Spoken like a good Catholic. However, the Protestant doctrine of Sola Fide says that you can get away with quite a bit as long as you acknowledge you sinfulness and put your faith in Christ…More importantly, to truly undergo conversion to holiness, which is a positive challenge, one must go “above and beyond,” not have the mindset like on a T-shirt I saw that said “Dear God, how much can I get away with and still get to Heaven?”
Justification, in Christian theology, is God’s act of removing the guilt and penalty of sin while at the same time declaring a sinner righteous through Christ’s atoning sacrifice. … In Lutheranism and Calvinism, righteousness from God is viewed as being credited to the sinner’s account through faith alone, without works.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_(theology
Another reason to be cautious about buying into the Protestant narrative too quickly - especially in the political realm.
L
Luke6_37
Guest
Great response
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
No. The timing is almost comical. This debate has been lost. That the Church speaks about it now instead of then is so frustrating.
M
MaryT777
Guest
Mark 14:38
New International Version
**Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
**
I didn’t read the article in full admittedly but it is certainly mentioned in the Bible that the flesh is weak. Not that it condones sin, but just that we are human albeit sinners as well.
Mary.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
Yes.
But don’t expect that to change people minds when their friends are sad! :bighanky:
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
And they wonder why skeptic personalities and Milo are more attractive for some younger folks…or why Donald J. Trump is the sitting president.
L
Luke6_37
Guest
Could you clarify what you mean by this, because I’m not following you.
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
Donald Trump, who has many followers on CAF, said Obergefell vs Hodges did settle marriage.
In an extensive interview on CBS, Trump sought to ease the anxieties of LGBTQ Americans that a new conservative Supreme Court majority might overturn the decision legalizing same-sex marriage.
Ducking a question about his personal view on the issue, which he dismissed as “irrelevant,” Trump asserted, bluntly, “it’s done.”
These cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They’ve been settled. And I’m — I’m fine with that,” he said.
politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-marriage-231310
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Yeah. What gets me is pope Francis has been late to the party and losing these battles longer than people realize. His time as Cardinal in Argentina was marked by a huge battle on gay marriage with the president of Argentina in which he fought quite valiantly for the Catholic position and was soundly rejected politically. From this initial foray into the culture wars we get his strongest defense. He pointed out that same sex adoption was a form of child abuse. Now, with all the world looking for direction we seem to get these statements after or during major votes by countries legalizing SS"M". As if our position is a commentary or afterthought. It seems to me to be leading from behind. It would be nice to get out in front of this. Italy, Ireland, USA… historically very religious countries. All defeats.
Like I said, the debate is over and this is one area in which the Church should separate herself from the secular.
Wait… I haven’t written my disclaimer about how we live the sinner not the sin, God is love… yadda yadds yadda.
J
jeannetherese
Guest
Hi Synoe,
While some may to a greater or lesser degree appreciate our current president, I would hope that no Catholic considers him to have more authority on the teachings of our faith than our bishops and pope.
Here are the final two paragraphs of the statement by the USCCB (I quoted the other paragraphs in an earlier post):
"
I encourage Catholics to move forward with faith, hope, and love: faith in the unchanging truth about marriage, rooted in the immutable nature of the human person and confirmed by divine revelation; hope that these truths will once again prevail in our society, not only by their logic, but by their great beauty and manifest service to the common good; and love for all our neighbors, even those who hate us or would punish us for our faith and moral convictions.
Lastly, I call upon all people of good will to join us in proclaiming the goodness, truth, and beauty of marriage as rightly understood for millennia, and I ask all in positions of power and authority to respect the God-given freedom to seek, live by, and bear witness to the truth."
usccb.org/news/2015/15-103.cfm
May God bless us all.
Amen.
While some may to a greater or lesser degree appreciate our current president, I would hope that no Catholic considers him to have more authority on the teachings of our faith than our bishops and pope.
Here are the final two paragraphs of the statement by the USCCB (I quoted the other paragraphs in an earlier post):
"
I encourage Catholics to move forward with faith, hope, and love: faith in the unchanging truth about marriage, rooted in the immutable nature of the human person and confirmed by divine revelation; hope that these truths will once again prevail in our society, not only by their logic, but by their great beauty and manifest service to the common good; and love for all our neighbors, even those who hate us or would punish us for our faith and moral convictions.
Lastly, I call upon all people of good will to join us in proclaiming the goodness, truth, and beauty of marriage as rightly understood for millennia, and I ask all in positions of power and authority to respect the God-given freedom to seek, live by, and bear witness to the truth."
usccb.org/news/2015/15-103.cfm
May God bless us all.
Amen.
- Status