Pope Says There is Only One True Church

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Beachcomber said:
Don’t be mad at me, but I was a bit disheartened to read this. Of course, the Pope is going to say that there is only one true church, but I don’t think this will help with reaching out to other faiths. You want to bring others into fold, as it were, but I think you need to find common ground first. John Paul II was pretty good at doing that, I thought. This seemed kind of harsh.]

Just remember this:

He did not say anything wrong.

Evangelism is not at stake here.

Holy Father is not saying anything NEW.

I know that may sound contradictory.

Its not.

Define evangelism to me, then I can go from there.]

I’ve been away from the church around 30 years and am now just coming around to thinking about attending and becoming active again. But this latest development makes me pause.]

Dont let this stop you. Welcome back home!
The Church is made up of sinners.
Yet- Jesus himself chose sinners.

Worry not.
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estesbob said:
You dont reach out to other faiths by lying to them. Nothing has changed, with this lates announcement. The Pope was merely reiterating what has been taught by the Church for the last 2,000 years.
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Of course you don’t lie to them, but there must be common ground somewhere that one can begin with, is my point. Like something basic: Jesus is the Son of God. Protestants would agree with that. Then you can take it from there. That’s what I mean.
 
estesbob said:
Do you have an alternate History you would to provide?

My points are valid from any perspective-unless one really believes God let the Church exist in grievous error for over a thousand years. Why would anyone worship a god that was inept as that?

You look at everything from the perspective that the Bible is a big Rubic Cube and all you have to do is fugue it out and all will be revealed to you. Thus you dump a verse of Scripture on us and are perplexed when no one agrees with what you say it does.

You will never see the truth until you free yourself from the straight jacket of Sola Scriptura
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First I didn’t dump a verse on you. You wanted to know why I say that you see things through a CC lens. You baited me to stay and talk and not run. Well, I didn’t need the baiting, but we needed something with which to discuss why we see things differently. I was willing to look at any place you might want for the establisment of your view, but I was also willing to offer one of my own. I could have offered any of several passages where I disagree with Catholic interpretations of the scriptures. And these disagreements are wherein we come to differings of tradition. Which btw, I do accept has of some value, for I am not an adherent of sola scriptura.

So that brings us to point #2. You have made some pretty big assumptions about me without even taking the time to get to know me or my beliefs. You have stereotypically assigned me to a particular way of thinking that I don’t even hold to. How many strawmen do you intend to create to argue against in my place.

I said that you view things through a Catholic lens, you ast as if this isn’t true. But your very actions have shown otherwise.
 
Beachcomber said:
Of course you don’t lie to them, but there must be common ground somewhere that one can begin with, is my point. Like something basic: Jesus is the Son of God. Protestants would agree with that. Then you can take it from there. That’s what I mean.
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I think you need to see that its been done.🙂

This thread has nothing to do with an attack against the divinity or humanity of Christ (although there are self proclaimed “christians” that deny it)

This is about the Church.

Its not a generic term, like kleenex.
 
I know what the thead is about. I’m just trying to give an example of finding a common starting point to dialog with other faiths.
I’m sorry if I don’t express myself clearly enough.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
First I didn’t dump a verse on you. You wanted to know why I say that you see things through a CC lens. You baited me to stay and talk and not run. Well, I didn’t need the baiting, but we needed something with which to discuss why we see things differently. I was willing to look at any place you might want for the establisment of your view, but I was also willing to offer one of my own. I could have offered any of several passages where I disagree with Catholic interpretations of the scriptures. And these disagreements are wherein we come to differings of tradition. Which btw, I do accept has of some value, for I am not an adherent of sola scriptura.
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’
If you dont accpet Sola scriptura what do you base your personal interertation of scripture on?
So that brings us to point #2. You have made some pretty big assumptions about me without even taking the time to get to know me or my beliefs. You have stereotypically assigned me to a particular way of thinking that I don’t even hold to. How many strawmen do you intend to create to argue against in my place.
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This isnt the first thread we have conversed in. I have replied to you based on what you have told us before.

Now if you can provide us with some evidence that there was another Christian Church than the catholic Church for at least a thousand years perhaps we can use that as a strartng point.
 
Beachcomber said:
I know what the thead is about. I’m just trying to give an example of finding a common starting point to dialog with other faiths.
I’m sorry if I don’t express myself clearly enough.
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Ecumenical endevours are wonderful.

If they are not false ecunemical endevours.

You made no mistake. Neither has the Church.👍
 
Hellisreal said:
I think you need to see that its been done.🙂

This thread has nothing to do with an attack against the divinity or humanity of Christ (although there are self proclaimed “christians” that deny it)

This is about the Church.

Its not a generic term, like kleenex.
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Then why use it that way?

Kleenex is a brand name, just like the term Catholic church is. What is not a brand name is the term “church”. The Church belongs to Jesus Christ, and as long as the Catholic church belongs to Jesus Christ then it too belongs to Jesus. When it sees itself as being able to say who is and who is not a brother of Christ, then it assumes too much authority for itself.

Oh, btw, the generic term for Kleenex is facial tissue. But Puffs and Scott make them too. And Lutherans, Methodists, Orthodox, and Anglicans are all churches as well and their members are all part of the Church, whether they are recognized by the Catholic church or not is inconseqential, for they are recognized by Christ, and he is the only authority that counts.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
Then why use it that way?

Kleenex is a brand name, just like the term Catholic church is. What is not a brand name is the term “church”. The Church belongs to Jesus Christ, and as long as the Catholic church belongs to Jesus Christ then it too belongs to Jesus. When it sees itself as being able to say who is and who is not a brother of Christ, then it assumes too much authority for itself.

Oh, btw, the generic term for Kleenex is facial tissue. But Puffs and Scott make them too. And Lutherans, Methodists, Orthodox, and Anglicans are all churches as well and their members are all part of the Church, whether they are recognized by the Catholic church or not is inconseqential, for they are recognized by Christ, and he is the only authority that counts.
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I absolutely agree Christ is the only authority that counts.

PS- I am trying to PM you but having problems with my browser its locking up
 
First off, Catholics would expect us Protestants to treat their Priests with respect. Grace Seeker is a Pastor, and you all should treat him with a little more respect.

Secondly, Hellisreal: I find it ironic that your signature verse says what it says, yet you continue to talk to the Protestants here as though they are “lost.” Wouldn’t your efforts be better spent, trying to convert someone who doesn’t know the Lord?
 
Grace_Seeker said:
Oh, btw, the generic term for Kleenex is facial tissue. But Puffs and Scott make them too. And Lutherans, Methodists, Orthodox, and Anglicans are all churches as well and their members are all part of the Church, whether they are recognized by the Catholic church or not is inconseqential, for they are recognized by Christ, and he is the only authority that counts.
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Awesome!! 👍
 
StacieAdy said:
First off, Catholics would expect us Protestants to treat their Priests with respect. Grace Seeker is a Pastor, and you all should treat him with a little more respect.

Secondly, Hellisreal: I find it ironic that your signature verse says what it says, yet you continue to talk to the Protestants here as though they are “lost.” Wouldn’t your efforts be better spent, trying to convert someone who doesn’t know the Lord?
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So funny you see it that way.

I communicate with people of no faith, and all in between several times a week via the net, and in real life- I have many friends of no faith and all sorts of faiths.

Even here at CAF:eek:

I know, Its totally shocking.

But- its true none the less.

Where did I say anyone of any faith or NONE was lost?

I dont mind correction- but use citations please.
 
I was appalled to see on Fox News on their news ticker what they had about the Pope’s statements. They made it sound like this is the first time the Catholic Church has ever said it. Another thing they said was that the Pope was “overturning rules creating after VII.”

Ugh. Sickens me how the media tries to twist things around.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

Also, they mispelled denominations and typed “dominions.” Serves them right to look like ignoramuses. 😉
 
Grace_Seeker said:
Then why use it that way?

Kleenex is a brand name, just like the term Catholic church is. What is not a brand name is the term “church”. The Church belongs to Jesus Christ, and as long as the Catholic church belongs to Jesus Christ then it too belongs to Jesus. When it sees itself as being able to say who is and who is not a brother of Christ, then it assumes too much authority for itself.
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No the Catholic Church is not a brand name. It is the name of the Church Jesus founded.
Oh, btw, the generic term for Kleenex is facial tissue. But Puffs and Scott make them too. And Lutherans, Methodists, Orthodox, and Anglicans are all churches as well and their members are all part of the Church, whether they are recognized by the Catholic church or not is inconseqential, for they are recognized by Christ, and he is the only authority that counts.
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If one wants to use the term “Church” as it is defined today all those organizations you mention are indeed “Church’s”. If you use the definition as provided by Jesus then they are not as they have removed themselves from his Church. You are correct that Jesus is the only Authority that counts and he gave his authority to his Church. The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church that can trace its Authority to Jesus.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
I get it hehe:p 😉
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I missed this remark from All for Him.

HEHE she dont know the bible as she claims.
Nor can she share her “in context interpretation”

Lest she resort to her pastor for help…🙂

He may still be available- call him. Ask him. I am waiting with baited breath.🙂
 
Beachcomber said:
Don’t be mad at me, but I was a bit disheartened to read this. Of course, the Pope is going to say that there is only one true church, but I don’t think this will help with reaching out to other faiths. You want to bring others into fold, as it were, but I think you need to find common ground first. John Paul II was pretty good at doing that, I thought. This seemed kind of harsh.

I’ve been away from the church around 30 years and am now just coming around to thinking about attending and becoming active again. But this latest development makes me pause.
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Beachcomber,
Have you ever read the current Catechism? The one put together by Pope John Paul II? If not you will be surprised at what it says.

This on page 224

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

Footnotes:

335 Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21:PL 3,1169; De unit.:PL 4,509-536.
336 LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5.
337 LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872.
338 AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16.

Pope Ben XVI is simply repeating what has always been taught. The problem people have is they look at the phrase “Outside the Church there is no salvation” and get all upset because they look at the face value of the phrase. They don’t think about what their Bible has to say about the Church or who is head of that same Church. God does not want us to simply look at the face value of something. He urges us to dig deep to find the real meaning. If you find your having trouble with something or something bothers you keep digging and ask for guidance along the way. You will find it. 🙂
 
I think God just hit himself on the forehead and is shaking his head. :dts:
 
Beachcomber said:
I know what the thread is about. I’m just trying to give an example of finding a common starting point to dialog with other faiths.
I’m sorry if I don’t express myself clearly enough.
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Unfortunately your going to come to a point were people will simply refuse to agree. Then what? If we truly believe what we do we can not back down simply because someone does not like what we teach. That is called compromising your principals. People tend to lose respect for someone who does that. If someone refuses to compromise on their principals then people tend to respect them more. Chances are they will still disagree but it will be with respect.

The ultimate problem is we are dealing with a society that believes that basically anything goes. The sky is the limit. They don’t like it when someone puts a limit on what they can do. Of course this creates a conflict between the Church and society. Should the Church be forced to compromise her principals because society disagrees with her?
 
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