Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

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ReConverted said:
I’m pretty sure that Jesus prefers to look out for women, blacks, native Americans, short people, handicapped people, tall people, etc as opposed to weapons manufacturers and big oil.
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But aren’t weapons manufacturers and big oil made up of people, some of whom are women, native Americans, blacks, short people, tall people, etc.?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You know how the left has their PC issues? You don’t dare say something that might be taken as offensive to women, blacks, native Americans, short people, handicapped people, tall people, etc., or you will have to apologize. Well, it seems the right has their PC issues too. You don’t dare say anything that might be taken as offensive to weapons manufacturers, big oil, etc., or you will have to apologize. This latest exchange just proves that point.
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I think you’re comparing apples and oranges. In those other instances you noted, are they called bad or fake Christians? A fair person could come to the interpretation of the Pope’s words as indicating he thinks just that.
 
Tbrightson said:
Sure, I realize the Pope understands that military force can be appropriate. Good on him.
But he obviously has an issue with weapons manufacturing, which he finds to be un-Christian by his remarks. I simply took what he said at face value, and am not going to twist myself into a pretzel to try to come up with an alternative interpretation to bail him out of the obvious contradiction.
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Rather than assuming the pope is an idiot who does not realize he is contradicting himself, it would be more humble if you would simply admit you don’t understand him and leave it at that.
 
Originally Posted by xNoOnex
Arm manufacturers not only build weapons with the intent to kill, but profit from their sale. While there’s nothing wrong with protecting one’s nation or family, do you really think it should be a multi-billion dollar business?
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ISIS rose to power specifically because the “Just War” doctrine wasn’t followed. Remember, one of the required elements is that the war cannot result in a greater evil, but that’s just what happened. The removal of Saddam Hussein under the Bush administration and later our support (albeit indirectly) of the Syrian rebels. Many modern wars, at least concerning Western involvement in them, directly lead to the rise of groups like ISIS.
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ReConverted said:
BINGO! 👍
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👍 Make that a TRINGO!
 
So is there any non-bias reports of what the pope actually said?

i think the original report came from reuters.

is there a video of the pope saying whatever he said?
 
it appears that this story spawned from reuters and it appears that they spined the story to be anti-catholic.

patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2013/03/more-anti-catholic-bias-from-reuters/

what he appeared to say was

“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons,” he said at one point. “That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?”

which is a long way away from saying you can’t be a Christian and manufacture guns.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
sloth said:
it appears that this story spawned from reuters and it appears that they spined the story to be anti-catholic.

patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2013/03/more-anti-catholic-bias-from-reuters/

what he appeared to say was

“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons,” he said at one point. “That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?”

which is a long way away from saying you can’t be a Christian and manufacture guns.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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If there is nothing unChristian about being involved in manufacturing weapons, then why would that occupation lead to any “distrust”? Seems to me he thinks there is a problem with doing that and being a Christian, if not then I guess there would be nothing wrong about saying this about bricklayers, bakers?

“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture BREAD,” he said at one point. “That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?”

Sounds a bit untowards to bakers doesn’t it?

.
 
Tbrightson said:
If there is nothing unChristian about being involved in manufacturing weapons, then why would that occupation lead to any “distrust”? Seems to me he thinks there is a problem with doing that and being a Christian, if not then I guess there would be nothing wrong about saying this about bricklayers, bakers?

“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture BREAD,” he said at one point. “That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?”

Sounds a bit untowards to bakers doesn’t it?

.
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He was on the topic of War when he brought up the subject.

I believe he was talking about making weapons for the soul purpose of killing people.

And implying that Christians Should be called to a Higher Standard.

“To love your enemy” and to “turn the other cheek” as Jesus would say.

I happen to love guns and I shoot regularly…
 
Tbrightson said:
If there is nothing unChristian about being involved in manufacturing weapons, then why would that occupation lead to any “distrust”? Seems to me he thinks there is a problem with doing that and being a Christian, if not then I guess there would be nothing wrong about saying this about bricklayers, bakers?

“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture BREAD,” he said at one point. “That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?”

Sounds a bit untowards to bakers doesn’t it?

.
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The Catholic Church believes in the “just war doctrine.” If a war is just, typically only one side is just.

There are many (not all) arms manufactures who will sell to both sides in a just war or sell to the unjust side only, or to both sides in an unjust war.

For a Catholic to knowingly sell arms to an unjust party is morally wrong. That is what the Pope meant.
 
phil19034 said:
The Catholic Church believes in the “just war doctrine.” If a war is just, typically only one side is just.

There are many (not all) arms manufactures who will sell to both sides in a just war or sell to the unjust side only, or to both sides in an unjust war.

For a Catholic to knowingly sell arms to an unjust party is morally wrong. That is what the Pope meant.
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This seems about right.
 
phil19034 said:
The Catholic Church believes in the “just war doctrine.” If a war is just, typically only one side is just.

There are many (not all) arms manufactures who will sell to both sides in a just war or sell to the unjust side only, or to both sides in an unjust war.

For a Catholic to knowingly sell arms to an unjust party is morally wrong. That is what the Pope meant.
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It’s amazing the contortions that people go through to make sense of his words.

Can anyone name an arms manufacturer who is “selling to both sides” in a war?
 
For a Catholic to knowingly sell arms to an unjust party is morally wrong. That is what the Pope meant.
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“It’s amazing the contortions that people go through to make sense of his words.”

No kidding! He didnt say that at all! Talk about denial…
 
believe he was talking about making weapons for the soul purpose of killing people.
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Well what other purposes would a weapon be used for? 🤷 Of course that is what the purpose of weapons are…the trick is knowing when to use them.
 
convert_2000 said:
I didn’t read all 22 pages of comments so someone else might have mentioned that Jimmy Akin wrote an informative article on the Pope’s comments. I’ve come to depend on him for the unscrambling of what the Pope says and ignore anything I read in the secular media. jimmyakin.com/2015/06/pope-francis-on-weapons-12-things-to-know-and-share.html
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Jimmy Akin’s is the most charitable and reasonable explanation I’ve heard to date and, yet, it still makes little sense prudentially. It’s on par with blaming starvation on food waste.
 
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