Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

[LeafByNiggle]

Jimmy Akin’s is the most charitable and reasonable explanation I’ve heard to date and, yet, it still makes little sense prudentially. It’s on par with blaming starvation on food waste.

Try reading St. John of the Cross literally and “prudentially” sometime and see how much sense that makes.

 

[friardchips]

It’s amazing the contortions that people go through to make sense of his words.

Can anyone name an arms manufacturer who is “selling to both sides” in a war?

You serious?!!

 

[KSU]

You serious?!!

Is that a “No, I can’t”?

If not, then name the manufactures who sell to ISIS/al Qaeda and the people who fight those barbarians.

 

[bitterhope]

I am really tired of trying to not only make sense of this particular pope myself but then try to explain him to others, including my children. It is long past time for him to quit these impromptu speeches. That would eliminate the media misinterpretations, the misquoting, and the nearly impossible to interpret messages in his speeches that often contain contradictions in them. I was so happy when he was elected but I now find myself struggling to respect him and trust him. Many of his impromptu remarks have been used by people in my life to hurt me personally. This is just one speech in a papacy full of unclear speeches. When the pope speaks we should not need to try to infer what he means. The message should be crystal clear.

 

[graciew]

I am really tired of trying to not only make sense of this particular pope myself but then try to explain him to others, including my children. It is long past time for him to quit these impromptu speeches. That would eliminate the media misinterpretations, the misquoting, and the nearly impossible to interpret messages in his speeches that often contain contradictions in them. I was so happy when he was elected but I now find myself struggling to respect him and trust him. Many of his impromptu remarks have been used by people in my life to hurt me personally. This is just one speech in a papacy full of unclear speeches. When the pope speaks we should not need to try to infer what he means. The message should be crystal clear.

It is crystal clear for many of us. And he is speaking in a language which is not even his.mother tongue.
We are also tired of being underestimated by extension for understanding what he says. And we can spend months explaining the obvious to those persons who part from the idea he may not even be Catholic and may have no.clue of what he is saying.
It does require effort to stay together in good times.and bad ones. And above all ,walking behind he who guides
We will be hurt personally ,bruises are part of the journey. Nothing compared to the pain real people are going through in other parts of the world.
And the jouney will continue cause we have a mission beyond us bigger than our complaints. At least for.me

 

[EasterJoy]

Is that a “No, I can’t”?

If not, then name the manufactures who sell to ISIS/al Qaeda and the people who fight those barbarians.

Judging by the arms captured in battles against ISIS in Northern Iraq and Syria, ISIS has obtained arms from at least 21 different countries. Most of this ultimately came from the stores of the US, Russian, and China.
huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/06/isis-weapons-report_n_5942334.html

Exactly who sold it to them? They try to make that hard to run down, when they can, to avoid jeopardizing future supplies.

Still, it has been estimated that the purchase of military items is a business that runs to about $1,000 billion dollars annuall worldwide. A lot of people want a piece of that pie.

 

[KSU]

Judging by the arms captured in battles against ISIS in Northern Iraq and Syria, ISIS has obtained arms from at least 21 different countries. Most of this ultimately came from the stores of the US, Russian, and China.
huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/06/isis-weapons-report_n_5942334.html

Exactly who sold it to them? They try to make that hard to run down, when they can, to avoid jeopardizing future supplies.

Still, it has been estimated that the purchase of military items is a business that runs to about $1,000 billion dollars annuall worldwide. A lot of people want a piece of that pie.

That’s not a surprise, and I am not defending the type of international arms dealers the Pope rightly criticizes. Still, it boils down to a "No, I can’t name the manufactures who sell to ISIS/al Qaeda and the people who fight those barbarians.

What I’m doing is defending US arms manufactures, but, if I’m wrong, I’d like friardchips to prove it. He doesn’t think much of my gun-crazy country.

 

[Tomdstone]

What I’m doing is defending US arms manufactures, .

The fat cat sellers of weapons, stuff their pockets and bank accounts with millions of dollars, while the poor children and mothers are gunned down or blown up by murderous missions carried out by soldiers using these weapons,.

 

[ephesians4]

The fat cat sellers of weapons, stuff their pockets and bank accounts with millions of dollars, while the poor children and mothers are gunned down or blown up by murderous missions carried out by soldiers using these weapons,.

I suspect that once in a while, weapons are used to protect life and freedom and keep heads attached to their owners, and that there is the odd occasion of soldiers not being ordered to find some children and mothers and gun them down.

 

[Tomdstone]

I suspect that once in a while, weapons are used to protect life and freedom and keep heads attached to their owners, and that there is the odd occasion of soldiers not being ordered to find some children and mothers and gun them down.

Soldiers may not be ordered to gun down civilians, but can you give me the name of a war, where civilians were not harmed one way or another. Take for example, the atomic bombing of Japan. The purpose was to save American lives but what was the method - the method was to unleash a horrific, murderous bomb which burned alive thousands of women and children who had nothing to do with the war.

 

[friardchips]

Judging by the arms captured in battles against ISIS in Northern Iraq and Syria, ISIS has obtained arms from at least 21 different countries. Most of this ultimately came from the stores of the US, Russian, and China.
huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/06/isis-weapons-report_n_5942334.html

Exactly who sold it to them? They try to make that hard to run down, when they can, to avoid jeopardizing future supplies.

Still, it has been estimated that the purchase of military items is a business that runs to about $1,000 billion dollars annuall worldwide. A lot of people want a piece of that pie.

.

 

[Brendan]

Judging by the arms captured in battles against ISIS in Northern Iraq and Syria, ISIS has obtained arms from at least 21 different countries. Most of this ultimately came from the stores of the US, Russian, and China.
huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/06/isis-weapons-report_n_5942334.html

Exactly who sold it to** them**? They try to make that hard to run down, when they can, to avoid jeopardizing future supplies…

You hit the key word there, THEM. Did anyone actually sell those arms to ISIS? Or are they using captured stocks from Syria and Iraq. That really is the key question

If Izmesh sold a shipment of AK’s to Syria, and those arms were captured by ISIS, what level of culpability does Izmesh have?

At Ft Hood, the US Army has a number of Russian T-72 tanks. Those were captured from Iraq in the first Gulf War. Would it be factually true to claim that the Russians sold those tanks to the US Army? Since both sides in the Gulf War ended up with T-72s, can Malyshev be accused of selling to both sides?

 

[Tbrightson]

I am really tired of trying to not only make sense of this particular pope myself but then try to explain him to others, including my children. It is long past time for him to quit these impromptu speeches. That would eliminate the media misinterpretations, the misquoting, and the nearly impossible to interpret messages in his speeches that often contain contradictions in them. I was so happy when he was elected but I now find myself struggling to respect him and trust him. Many of his impromptu remarks have been used by people in my life to hurt me personally. This is just one speech in a papacy full of unclear speeches. When the pope speaks we should not need to try to infer what he means. The message should be crystal clear.

Amen to that!

 

[friardchips]

Amen to that!

In an imperfect world, one can’t please everyone.

 

[bitterhope]

It is crystal clear for many of us. And he is speaking in a language which is not even his.mother tongue.
We are also tired of being underestimated by extension for understanding what he says. And we can spend months explaining the obvious to those persons who part from the idea he may not even be Catholic and may have no.clue of what he is saying.
It does require effort to stay together in good times.and bad ones. And above all ,walking behind he who guides
We will be hurt personally ,bruises are part of the journey. Nothing compared to the pain real people are going through in other parts of the world.

And the jouney will continue cause we have a mission beyond us bigger than our complaints. At least for.me

I’m well aware of how it is speaking in a second language. I do remember when he was elected Pope, though, that it was said in many reports that he grew up speaking Italian at home and also with grandparents because his family were immigrants to Argentina. My husband is an immigrant and spoke no English when we met. Italian wasn’t Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict’s first language either.

If Pope Francis’ meanings were so crystal clear then why do most of us just not get it or have different understandings from each other? If you truly do understand his speeches and to you they are crystal clear well, congratulations! I’m happy for you. In real life I have met no one that understands him and it seems many on CAF don’t either. Pope Francis has said very strange things including in Spanish so I’m no longer convinced it is a language barrier.

The pope’ words should not be used to hurt faithful Catholics while also used to promote sinful behavior. That is what is occurring with this pope. “Who am I to judge” is undoubtably brought up anytime remarriage or homosexuals are discussed. “Catholics are not meant to breed like rabbits” is brought up when people see big families. Yes, Pope Francis said both. Like it or not normal people used them against Catholics. Are they accurate quotes? Are they used out of context? Are they mistranslations? Does it really matter anymore? He has been pope long enough now that he should realize what is going to occur when he gives these impromptu speeches yet he keeps on doing it.

Many of us are trying to follow behind Pope Francis but he is making it very difficult to do so. I have watched people use all sorts of mental gymnastics to reconcile things he says with church teaching. At times it feels like the blind leading the blind.

Sarcasm such as eye rolls does not make me believe you truly understand this pope. It’s rude and childish. Not understanding why so many on CAF resort to those sorts of things. I’m happy that you understand, but many of us don’t. Most of us have been good and faithful Catholics who have upheld our church’s teachings for entire lifetimes but can make no sense of this Pope. Many of us are praying for understanding but can find none. And seeing how people throw this type of sarcasm at us is not at all helpful. It doesn’t make understand magically occur in our hearts and brains, even though that has been at least MY desperate prayer for quite a long time now.

 

[graciew]

I’m well aware of how it is speaking in a second language. I do remember when he was elected Pope, though, that it was said in many reports that he grew up speaking Italian at home and also with grandparents because his family were immigrants to Argentina. My husband is an immigrant and spoke no English when we met. Italian wasn’t Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict’s first language either.

If Pope Francis’ meanings were so crystal clear then why do most of us just not get it or have different understandings from each other? If you truly do understand his speeches and to you they are crystal clear well, congratulations! I’m happy for you. In real life I have met no one that understands him and it seems many on CAF don’t either. Pope Francis has said very strange things including in Spanish so I’m no longer convinced it is a language barrier.

The pope’ words should not be used to hurt faithful Catholics while also used to promote sinful behavior. That is what is occurring with this pope. “Who am I to judge” is undoubtably brought up anytime remarriage or homosexuals are discussed. “Catholics are not meant to breed like rabbits” is brought up when people see big families. Yes, Pope Francis said both. Like it or not normal people used them against Catholics. Are they accurate quotes? Are they used out of context? Are they mistranslations? Does it really matter anymore? He has been pope long enough now that he should realize what is going to occur when he gives these impromptu speeches yet he keeps on doing it.

Many of us are trying to follow behind Pope Francis but he is making it very difficult to do so. I have watched people use all sorts of mental gymnastics to reconcile things he says with church teaching. At times it feels like the blind leading the blind.

Sarcasm such as eye rolls does not make me believe you truly understand this pope. It’s rude and childish. Not understanding why so many on CAF resort to those sorts of things. I’m happy that you understand, but many of us don’t. Most of us have been good and faithful Catholics who have upheld our church’s teachings for entire lifetimes but can make no sense of this Pope. Many of us are praying for understanding but can find none. And seeing how people throw this type of sarcasm at us is not at all helpful. It doesn’t make understand magically occur in our hearts and brains, even though that has been at least MY desperate prayer for quite a long time now.

Bitterhope, I did not put those roller eyes deliberately. I must have clicked the icon by mistake.
I can perfectly well understand that after the roller eyes,whatever one reads sounds sarcastic and rude. I do apologize wholeheartedly for that, I realized the icon was there when reading your post. I do understand you reaction,sorry.

 

[zz912]

I’m well aware of how it is speaking in a second language. I do remember when he was elected Pope, though, that it was said in many reports that he grew up speaking Italian at home and also with grandparents because his family were immigrants to Argentina. My husband is an immigrant and spoke no English when we met. Italian wasn’t Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict’s first language either.

If Pope Francis’ meanings were so crystal clear then why do most of us just not get it or have different understandings from each other? If you truly do understand his speeches and to you they are crystal clear well, congratulations! I’m happy for you. In real life I have met no one that understands him and it seems many on CAF don’t either. Pope Francis has said very strange things including in Spanish so I’m no longer convinced it is a language barrier.

The pope’ words should not be used to hurt faithful Catholics while also used to promote sinful behavior. That is what is occurring with this pope. “Who am I to judge” is undoubtably brought up anytime remarriage or homosexuals are discussed. “Catholics are not meant to breed like rabbits” is brought up when people see big families. Yes, Pope Francis said both. Like it or not normal people used them against Catholics. Are they accurate quotes? Are they used out of context? Are they mistranslations? Does it really matter anymore? He has been pope long enough now that he should realize what is going to occur when he gives these impromptu speeches yet he keeps on doing it.

Many of us are trying to follow behind Pope Francis but he is making it very difficult to do so. I have watched people use all sorts of mental gymnastics to reconcile things he says with church teaching. At times it feels like the blind leading the blind.

Sarcasm such as eye rolls does not make me believe you truly understand this pope. It’s rude and childish. Not understanding why so many on CAF resort to those sorts of things. I’m happy that you understand, but many of us don’t. Most of us have been good and faithful Catholics who have upheld our church’s teachings for entire lifetimes but can make no sense of this Pope. Many of us are praying for understanding but can find none. And seeing how people throw this type of sarcasm at us is not at all helpful. It doesn’t make understand magically occur in our hearts and brains, even though that has been at least MY desperate prayer for quite a long time now.

Agreed very much!

And the two Popes prior to Francis didn’t speak Italian as their native tongue either. Yet they didn’t have this issue.

 

[graciew]

And the two Popes prior to Francis didn’t speak Italian as their native tongue either. Yet they didn’t have this issue.

This is true,they did not speak their mother tongue.

 

[friardchips]

This is true,they did not speak their mother tongue.

I think people misinterpret ‘rollereyes’. The eyes have a smiling face to show humour. Sometimes I think the reactions people give to emoticons say more about those individuals than the emoticons say about those who use them.

 

[graciew]

I think people misinterpret ‘rollereyes’. The eyes have a smiling face to show humour. Sometimes I think the reactions people give to emoticons say more about those individuals than the emoticons say about those who uses them.

Thank you .
I see the smiling face now.