Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

[Bubba_Switzler]

Brother Christian, just pray for him - we are told that choosing to do good even when the road ahead is unclear is what we care called to do: blind trust! He is our Holy Father, so be sure he is paying you the same compliment by praying for you; for all of us!

I prefer reasonable faith to blind faith.

Let us also pray for the arms manufacturers and investors. They are probably not feeling much joy right now from Pope Francis.

The secular media are unscrupulous. They are the wolves among the flocks. They hunt in packs and don’t tire easily. If you want to put your trust in wayward excuses of men rather than the Holy Spirit and Holy Mother Church who does guide our Pope then the media has won. They don’t care about you. They will strip you bare of your faith if it meant they could lure one more of our Lord’s sheep away from Him to further their agendas by one more step. But I would hazard a guess and state that if you were to meet the pope you would ascertain very quickly that he probably does care about you.

Sorry, as much as I distrust the secular media I can’t agree that Pope Francis is an innocent victim here. There have been too many of these by now. A pattern has revealed itself.

I don’t doubt that Pope Francis is genuine in his intentions. It is his prudential reasoning that I am questioning.

 

[KSU]

Originally Posted by KSU View Post
St. Paul: “To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I became all things to all men, that I might save all.”

Awesome!

Good gravy, my friend; I’m almost afraid to ask: What do those words of St. Paul mean to you regarding Francis?

And you have me at a disadvantage in our debate; am I addressing an orthodox Roman Catholic, or something close to that? Please tell me to mind my own business if you wish to keep me at said disadvantage. It’s understandable that you may wish to keep it so in order to counter my St. Thomas-like brilliance in debate.

 

[friardchips]

Originally Posted by KSU View Post
St. Paul: “To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I became all things to all men, that I might save all.”

Good gravy, my friend; I’m almost afraid to ask: What do those words of St. Paul mean to you regarding Francis?

If I didn’t understand the quote then why would I have given it the thumbs up.

If you want me to colour in your colouring book: humility; empathy; love.

Or better still: Corinthians 1:13.

And you have me at a disadvantage in our debate; am I addressing an orthodox Roman Catholic, or something close to that? Please tell me to mind my own business if you wish to keep me at said disadvantage. It’s understandable that you may wish to keep it so in order to counter my St. Thomas-like brilliance in debate.

There is only Roman Catholic i.e: - Catholic (‘all embracing’).

There are many branches of Christianity if that is what you mean.

I don’t aim for anyone to be at a disadvantage. Peace and goodwill to you.

(Again, your quote was spot on!).

 

[friardchips]

I prefer reasonable faith to blind faith.

Let us also pray for the arms manufacturers and investors. They are probably not feeling much joy right now from Pope Francis.

Sorry, as much as I distrust the secular media I can’t agree that Pope Francis is an innocent victim here. There have been too many of these by now. A pattern has revealed itself.

I don’t doubt that Pope Francis is genuine in his intentions. It is his prudential reasoning that I am questioning.

The plank and the splinter might apply. I don’t know you. But it is best we pray, for understanding, as to how our Creator sees us. First.

 

[Brendan]

So, by that assertion, you are categorically (?)…stating, that when Bishops are praying for the election of the Pope - that they might vote wisely - it is not the Holy Spirit through whom they are praying?

No, they are praying for wisdom, but it still their action. The election of a Pontiff is still the work of humans. They have full freedom, their discernment, individual and as a whole, might not be the Will of the Spirit. The Church makes no claim than an election is the Work of the Spirit, only that we have hope that it is, that the decision that the Cardinals make was a wise one.

I have seen nothing to indicate that the election of Pope Francis was other than a wise decision, but I just wanted to make sure that everyone viewing this threat understands how the CHURCH views a Papal election.

 

[friardchips]

No, they are praying for wisdom, but it still their action. The election of a Pontiff is still the work of humans. They have full freedom, their discernment, individual and as a whole, might not be the Will of the Spirit. The Church makes no claim than an election is the Work of the Spirit, only that we have hope that it is, that the decision that the Cardinals make was a wise one.

I have seen nothing to indicate that the election of Pope Francis was other than a wise decision, but I just wanted to make sure that everyone viewing this threat understands how the CHURCH views a Papal election.

One’s view of the Pope comes down to how much one trusts the Church’s openness to the Holy Spirit and the degree of involvement the Holy Spirit takes in this process.

For those who trust the Church is in good hands believe also the Cardinals are open to the Holy Spirit and that our Creator can work in all men.

For those who don’t, there will be an aversion to such a belief, and therefore, will fault-find more impulsively than those who trust and pray.

The Church’s “position” is that Cardinals/priests are bound to the Second Person of the Holy Trinity’s Heart in breadth and length and height and depth to a degree we cannot understand. And the power these holy men have comes through the Church (told this by a priest). They are bound to the Church due to their ordination. So if you think these people are not open to the Holy Spirit to the degree of being divinely inspired enough in wisdom to make a good choice for a Holy Father to be appointed, who would be well disposed towards taking proper responsibility for all of our Creator’s sheep, enough for his election to be thought a good decision, then please go ahead and tell me.

 

[bitterhope]

There have been worse popes, I’ll admit. Pope Francis is a challenge for those who have dedicated their lives to defending the innocent through the manufacture of arms, among others.

But never in my lifetime have I heard a pope show such wanton disregard for prudence. I’m less puzzled by Pope Francis with each new comment from him. Some blame the media for misrepresenting him. I no longer believe that.

Yes. It puts those of us that have attempted to follow church teaching in our private home life in a bind due to the words of a pope that are spoken without thinking (perhaps?).

When I drive my eight kids around in a 15 passenger van I am reminded how I am contributing to global warming, overpopulation, and now thanks to this pope, reminded also that Catholics no longer need to have so many kids. I didn’t have my kids in order to be viewed as a good catholic or appear as one, but it was always comforting that at least my church viewed my family in a positive light. My husband also is in the military. He might not be a manufacturer but without them he could not do his job. Yes, I have already been told that this also proves I’m a horribly selfish person and the pope’s words are used to prove it. I find it very difficult to continue teaching my kids that words and actions have real consequences when it doesn’t seem that even the pope acknowledges that they do. He really needs to think before he starts with his little remarks because they end up very large and destructive in a short amount of time. For the first year I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but now it seems impossible. Surely by now he has realized the way everything is going to be spread around.

I honestly want to not only like this pope but to love him and to follow him. Problem is, I’m becoming more and more lost everyday. I can’t figure out what I am supposed to be doing or how I’m supposed to live anymore, so I’ve just given it to Jesus. Many people I know are feeling lost due to the lack of clear leadership, the contradictions, and what seems to be a foreshadowing of changes. Our world is confusing enough. We don’t need the pope to make it harder on us. Unfortunately for many of us, pope francis has made it much harder to hold on to the church because we no longer know if we really belong or not.

 

[Brendan]

The Church’s “position” is that Cardinals/priests are bound to the Second Person of the Holy Trinity’s Heart in breadth and length and height and depth to a degree we cannot understand. And the power these holy men have comes through the Church (told this by a priest). They are bound to the Church due to their ordination. So if you think these people are not open to the Holy Spirit to the degree of being divinely inspired enough in wisdom to make a good choice for a Holy Father to be appointed, who would be well disposed towards taking proper responsibility for all of our Creator’s sheep, enough for his election to be thought a good decision, then please go ahead and tell me.

The Church’s position is that all human, what ever degree are granted the use of Free Will. The Church has never taught that a Cardinal loses that when he enters the Conclave.

If what you say is true, there never would have been a pedophile crisis in the Church.

 

[KSU]

Originally Posted by KSU View Post
St. Paul: “To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I became all things to all men, that I might save all.”

Good gravy, my friend; I’m almost afraid to ask: What do those words of St. Paul mean to you regarding Francis?

And you have me at a disadvantage in our debate; am I addressing an orthodox Roman Catholic, or something close to that? Please tell me to mind my own business if you wish to keep me at said disadvantage. It’s understandable that you may wish to keep it so in order to counter my St. Thomas-like brilliance in debate.

If I didn’t understand the quote then why would I have given it the thumbs up.

If you want me to colour in your colouring book: humility; empathy; love.

Or better still: Corinthians 1:13.

There is only Roman Catholic i.e: - Catholic (‘all embracing’).

There are many branches of Christianity if that is what you mean.

I don’t aim for anyone to be at a disadvantage. Peace and goodwill to you.

(Again, your quote was spot on!).

Well, my friend, I have no doubt you understand St. Paul’s words, but I still don’t know what those words mean to you regarding Francis. Nor did you tell me whether I am talking to an orthodox Roman Catholic, or something close to that.

But that’s OK; it’s your business. It also means that you will retain your advantage in that I will have to keep speaking to you under my assumption you are not an orthodox Roman Catholic, thus risking the impression that I am talking down to you.

 

[surritter]

Remember, one of the required elements is that the war cannot result in a greater evil, but that’s just what happened.

This isn’t completely true, because you are implying that every entrant into a war can foresee the results.
Just war theory doesn’t demand that a country know every possible result; just that a reasonably predicted outcome not be of greater proportion.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Yes, workers are worthy of their wages, including higher minimum wages, especially from billion-dollar corporations. (I just couldn’t resist.)

The Pope might even agree. But all I’ll say on weapons is whatever he meant, I’m glad he brought the weapons issue up. Too many people to suit me are getting killed by people with guns. And that’s all I will have to say about it on this thread.

 

[Suudy]

The Pope might even agree. But all I’ll say on weapons is whatever he meant, I’m glad he brought the weapons issue up. Too many people to suit me are getting killed by people with guns. And that’s all I will have to say about it on this thread.

There are 120 times more deaths due to “medical procedures” than guns in the US alone. And of those gun deaths, over 60% were suicides. There are other threats to life more likely to occur than gun deaths. The overemphasis on gun deaths and the ignoring of the intentional slaughter of millions of the most innocent is appalling.

 

[friardchips]

The Church’s position is that all human, what ever degree are granted the use of Free Will. The Church has never taught that a Cardinal loses that when he enters the Conclave. If what you say is true, there never would have been a pedophile crisis in the Church.

No one says that when people are ordained they leave their brains behind at the door or are immune to evil. Life is still participation. But what it does mean is that they have a special relationship with our Creator and therefore are very open to guidance from the Holy Spirit if they don’t close in on themselves (answer to last bit).

To say that ordained men have no special relationship with our Creator is nonsense. There is a closeness through their ordination in order for them to wholly commit to administering the Sacraments and to shepherd and to preach the Good News.

 

[friardchips]

Originally Posted by KSU View Post
St. Paul: “To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I became all things to all men, that I might save all.”

Good gravy, my friend; I’m almost afraid to ask: What do those words of St. Paul mean to you regarding Francis?

And you have me at a disadvantage in our debate; am I addressing an orthodox Roman Catholic, or something close to that? Please tell me to mind my own business if you wish to keep me at said disadvantage. It’s understandable that you may wish to keep it so in order to counter my St. Thomas-like brilliance in debate.

Well, my friend, I have no doubt you understand St. Paul’s words, but I still don’t know what those words mean to you regarding Francis. Nor did you tell me whether I am talking to an orthodox Roman Catholic, or something close to that.

But that’s OK; it’s your business. It also means that you will retain your advantage in that I will have to keep speaking to you under my assumption you are not an orthodox Roman Catholic, thus risking the impression that I am talking down to you.

Pope Francis embodies in a very free way openness to the Holy Spirit and therefore love. This is the link between St. Paul’s words and the Pope - the Holy Spirit. Who Himself has helped true disciples over the centuries preach the Good News to those who are poor in spirit, that eyes could see and ears could hear.

I did answer your question about Catholicism. But again, one need eyes to see and ears to hear. So I will explain again: I am a Roman Catholic i.e:- Catholic - ‘all embracing’.

 

[BlueKnight]

Well I would by stock in farm equipment manufacturers right now. I bet all that gun metal is going to be turned to plows and stuff.

I don’t know if you noticed, but ISIS uses American weapons and vehicles. I guess there is a military uses supply store in Northern Iraq or he US gave it to them.

Weapons can be used by anyone. There is a town in Afghanistan that makes one million guns a year.

That all being said, to all you gun lovers out there might I suggest you add the holy rosary to you gun safe and ask god to grant you spiritual weapons and the know how on their proper use.

Might I suggest a 54 day rosary novena for the Christians in America to wake up in Christ and be converted!

I don’t have a problem with guns.

Bk

 

[zz912]

Yes. It puts those of us that have attempted to follow church teaching in our private home life in a bind due to the words of a pope that are spoken without thinking (perhaps?).

When I drive my eight kids around in a 15 passenger van I am reminded how I am contributing to global warming, overpopulation, and now thanks to this pope, reminded also that Catholics no longer need to have so many kids. I didn’t have my kids in order to be viewed as a good catholic or appear as one, but it was always comforting that at least my church viewed my family in a positive light. My husband also is in the military. He might not be a manufacturer but without them he could not do his job. Yes, I have already been told that this also proves I’m a horribly selfish person and the pope’s words are used to prove it. I find it very difficult to continue teaching my kids that words and actions have real consequences when it doesn’t seem that even the pope acknowledges that they do. He really needs to think before he starts with his little remarks because they end up very large and destructive in a short amount of time. For the first year I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but now it seems impossible. Surely by now he has realized the way everything is going to be spread around.

I honestly want to not only like this pope but to love him and to follow him. Problem is, I’m becoming more and more lost everyday. I can’t figure out what I am supposed to be doing or how I’m supposed to live anymore, so I’ve just given it to Jesus. Many people I know are feeling lost due to the lack of clear leadership, the contradictions, and what seems to be a foreshadowing of changes. Our world is confusing enough. We don’t need the pope to make it harder on us. Unfortunately for many of us, pope francis has made it much harder to hold on to the church because we no longer know if we really belong or not.

I wish I could give this post a 1,000 thumbs up!

 

[Brendan]

No one says that when people are ordained they leave their brains behind at the door or are immune to evil. Life is still participation. But what it does mean is that they have a special relationship with our Creator and therefore are very open to guidance from the Holy Spirit if they don’t close in on themselves (answer to last bit).

To say that ordained men have no special relationship with our Creator is nonsense. There is a closeness through their ordination in order for them to wholly commit to administering the Sacraments and to shepherd and to preach the Good News.

I understand that, but that special relationship does not preclude them from making choices that God would not wish. That includes in the Conclave and outside of it.

 

[friardchips]

I wish I could give this post a 1,000 thumbs up!

If I could give the post a thousand… …I would!

 

[friardchips]

I understand that, but that special relationship does not preclude them from making choices that God would not wish. That includes in the Conclave and outside of it.

Depends if they pray and listen accordingly. I would hope because they’re where they are in the first place, that they would be.

The West has an aversion to the Pope because he challenges us out of our reliance on belonging to a ‘middle-class’ club, instead of a poor Church. He is shaking us up that we grow in poverty of spirit.

 

[graciew]

Depends if they pray and listen accordingly. I would hope because they’re where they are in the first place, that they would be.

The West has an aversion to the Pope because he challenges us out of our reliance on belonging to a ‘middle-class’ club, instead of a poor Church. He is shaking us up that we grow in poverty of spirit.

And us too ,he challenges all of us as a family ,Friardchips. It hurts in my heart to.know we worry of our bubbles ,mine included ,while other persons are suffering so much in Middle East. It hurts a lot to seebhow we argue about a Holy Spirit we cannot handcuff , and a lot to read that we are in the clouds when he is begging that we stop this butchery. If we are blind ,deaf and filled with anaesthesia ,our good Pope is not.
Thank you ,you brought me a smile and helped me think and pray yesterday,we need peace on this earth