Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian

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Originally Posted by KSU
Are you [BlueKnight] related to (or perhaps attend the same schools as) friardchips?

I was being sarcastic. Both BlueKnight and friardchips seem to have what is almost an aversion to a clear, consistent position regarding the interplay between the use of weapons and Catholicism. To debate them on that topic is akin to nailing quicksilver to a wall.

But I mean that in a good way;)
Wouldn’t you just shoot him instead? 😉
 
The kicker being the government, responsible for overseeing export of weapons, violated export laws in the process (at least, ATF/FBI/DEA/DOJ still has not provided any indication they obtained the required export approval and licenses for the weapons to the cartels via Fast and Furious; Castaway; Wide Receiver II, or two unnamed operations in Texas. Manufactures did obtain the requisite approval/licenses for weapons sold to the Mexican governmnt).
Of course Fast and Furious violated laws–local, state, US and international. Wide Receiver, however, was a very limited, serious effort which did not violate law–it was a joint US/Mexican Government effort using traceable weapons. When Dear Leader et al. assumed office, they used the name Wide Receiver just for cover, but they did not use traceable weapons or bother to inform Mexican law enforcement. They got what they wanted–carnage in Mexico that was to be blamed on US gun dealers.

Come to think about it, Bubba Switzler’s point can be taken seriously, even though Pope Francis did not have Fast and Furious specifically in mind.
 
I will. For you and all
I have come to a conclusion here, as with many threads before, that putting one’s point across can be tantamount to this: :banghead: especially over such controversial subjects as guns. I can quite see why trying to script out some new teaching about guns in the U.S would be quite impossible due to the diehards who live their lives swearing by them.

To change the world:

The U.S needs to make guns illegal (and stop being naively hypocritical).
Russia needs to stop drinking Vodka.
The U.K needs to grow a backbone.

Missing element: LOVE.

Check this link if you get time: marypages.com/Theresa.htm

👍🙂
 
Of course Fast and Furious violated laws–local, state, US and international. Wide Receiver, however, was a very limited, serious effort which did not violate law–it was a joint US/Mexican Government effort using traceable weapons. When Dear Leader et al. assumed office, they used the name Wide Receiver just for cover, but they did not use traceable weapons or bother to inform Mexican law enforcement. They got what they wanted–carnage in Mexico that was to be blamed on US gun dealers.

Come to think about it, Bubba Switzler’s point can be taken seriously, even though Pope Francis did not have Fast and Furious specifically in mind.
Your description is how I also understand it, hence why I referred to it as Wide Receiver II since the initial operation was canceled when they lost a shipment. Seems the smugglers figured out (or were informed) of the tracking mechanism and figured out tactics to defeat the tracking.
 
I have come to a conclusion here, as with many threads before, that putting one’s point across can be tantamount to this: :banghead: especially over such controversial subjects as guns. I can quite see why trying to script out some new teaching about guns in the U.S would be quite impossible due to the diehards who live their lives swearing by them.

To change the world:

The U.S needs to make guns illegal (and stop being naively hypocritical).
Russia needs to stop drinking Vodka.
The U.K needs to grow a backbone.

Missing element: LOVE.

Check this link if you get time: marypages.com/Theresa.htm

👍🙂
Wow. Talk about ethnocentric nationalistic stereotyping
 
I have come to a conclusion here, as with many threads before, that putting one’s point across can be tantamount to this: :banghead: especially over such controversial subjects as guns. I can quite see why trying to script out some new teaching about guns in the U.S would be quite impossible due to the diehards who live their lives swearing by them.

To change the world:

The U.S needs to make guns illegal (and stop being naively hypocritical).
Russia needs to stop drinking Vodka.
The U.K needs to grow a backbone.

Missing element: LOVE.

Check this link if you get time: marypages.com/Theresa.htm

👍🙂
There’s no requirement for a new teaching on guns. The catechism is quite adequate, you have a moral obligation to value your own life and a right to defend it. (Note, the right to defend your own life isn’t necessarily an obligation to under all circumstances). Those in authority responsible for the lives of others also have a duty to provide for the defense of those who have entrusted them with authority…
 
I have come to a conclusion here, as with many threads before, that putting one’s point across can be tantamount to this: :banghead: especially over such controversial subjects as guns. I can quite see why trying to script out some new teaching about guns in the U.S would be quite impossible due to the diehards who live their lives swearing by them.

To change the world:

The U.S needs to make guns illegal (and stop being naively hypocritical).
Russia needs to stop drinking Vodka.
The U.K needs to grow a backbone.

Missing element: LOVE.

Check this link if you get time: marypages.com/Theresa.htm

👍🙂
Oh, I understand your point quite well. I just disagree with it, especially with the US making guns illegal.
 
So give me some specific examples. Does the fact that ASC make a profit when it makes subs for the RAN mean that it is more evil than if the RAN owned the shipyards, hired the engineers and welders, and made the subs themselves?

How does ASC building subs for the Navy ‘escalate greed’?

Or Thales Australia makes a pretty nice armored car called the Bushmaster. They just sold a dozen to the Dutch Army. Would it have been more ethical for the ADF to have manufactured them themselves, would the ADF selling the cars to the Dutch been more moral?
First, if you could answer the question I asked in #442.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13095678&postcount=442

Again, bearing in mind the topic… do you think that Pope Francis comments are exclusively directed towards those traditionally unfriendly countries arms industries and not to the arms industries in general across the ‘friendly’ world such as USA? Do you not think that he is addressing the profit driven agendas of all nations trades as being responsible for unwarranted violence and death in the world?

Here is his commentary…

It makes me think one thing: people, leaders, entrepreneurs that call themselves Christians, and produce arms! This gives some mistrust: they call themselves Christians! “No, no, Father, I don’t produce them, no, no … I only have my savings, my investments in arms factories.” Ah! And why? “Because the interest is somewhat higher …” And a double face is also a current coin today: to say something and do another. Hypocrisy …l But let’s see what happened in the last century: in ’14, ’15, in ’15 in fact. There was that great tragedy in Armenia. So many died. I don’t know the figure: more than a million certainly. But where were the great powers of the time? Were they looking elsewhere? Why? Because they were interested in war: their war! And those that died were persons, second class human beings. Then, in the 30s and 40s the tragedy of the Shoah. The great powers had photographs of the railroad lines that took trains to the concentration camps, such as Auschwitz, to kill the Jews, and also Christians, also the Roma, also homosexuals, to kill them there. But tell me, why didn’t they bomb that? Interest! And shortly after, almost contemporaneously, were the lager in Russia: Stalin … How many Christians suffered, were killed! The great powers divided Europe among themselves as a cake. So many years had to pass before arriving at “certain” freedom. It’s that hypocrisy of speaking of peace and producing arms, and even selling arms to this one who is at war with that one, and to that one who is at war with this one!
 
Because…Vodka is a cultural norm. I used to drink Vodka many years ago and western Vodka is nothing like as strong as real Russian Vodka so I can’t imagine what the real stuff does to the brain and temperament.
 
Oh, I understand your point quite well. I just disagree with it, especially with the US making guns illegal.
Can all people carry a gun in the U.S and use them or do they need a hard-to-get license?
 
There’s no requirement for a new teaching on guns. The catechism is quite adequate, you have a moral obligation to value your own life and a right to defend it. (Note, the right to defend your own life isn’t necessarily an obligation to under all circumstances). Those in authority responsible for the lives of others also have a duty to provide for the defense of those who have entrusted them with authority…
I am not disagreeing. However, it is about putting things in proportion. Could you post the catechism reference please?
 
Because…Vodka is a cultural norm. I used to drink Vodka many years ago and western Vodka is nothing like as strong as real Russian Vodka so I can’t imagine what the real stuff does to the brain and temperament.
My opinion is that vodka should be illegal… even Western vodka. God didn’t mean potato’s for that!
 
Can all people carry a gun in the U.S and use them or do they need a hard-to-get license?
Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can acquire a gun legally. Believe it or not there are gun control laws in place. Some states have more stringent laws than others.

I am beginning to think that the U.S. you have in mind may be more of a caricature.
 
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