Pope says yoga courses have no answers

[JamalChristophr]

Yoga is most dangerous for those who are not Christian, I think, because humans are very spiritual by nature. If they don’t have or think Jesus is the answer, they will be looking elsewhere.

 

[FollowChrist34]

It’s very rare that I find myself in 100% agreement with a single post here at CAF, yet, spot on Havard!

This has been my experience as well living in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, and now San Diego. The only place I’ve ever seen a truly secular “Yoga” course was at the hospital and it was attended by two geriatrics (likely at the behest of their physicians). My first experience of “Yoga” was here, and I brought a “Yoga” practitioner colleague of mine (who is an avowed atheist materialist). There was no Sanskrit, no Hindu prayers, or any of the other things that I would assume my colleague would call “philosophical mumbo jumbo”. I was surprised to hear him say that this wasn’t “real Yoga” for lack of such spiritual things. I’ve also spoken to Hindu colleagues who are quite offended that pale-skinned westerners are essentially hijacking their practices and stripping them of the necessary elements that they, the actual people who created Yoga feel define the very practice!

I went to four or five other yoga studios recommended to me by various individuals and every single one was seeping with spirituality. “Emptying of one’s consciousness”, “Bhakti Yoga” or the uniting oneself in supreme adoration of Lord Krishna, chanting in Sanskrit, etc. What’s worse is that these studios were usually quite syncretistic, having pamphlets on Astrology, Tarot, and even European neo-paganism!

But it isn’t Yoga. Here’s an honest hypothetical question: If an Easterner were to take the Liturgy of the Mass, strip it of all its religious connotation (or just conveniently ignore the religious connotation) while keeping all the respective body movements prescribed in the rubrics (or through tradition), would you say that person was actually experiencing “Mass”? Even if she were to insist that she doesn’t believe, practice, or follow any of the Jesus stuff in it; it’s just her exercise that’s called “Mass”?

Does the sitting, standing, kneeling, genuflecting, bowing, listening to Gregorian Chant, all lead by a guy wearing a Chasuble make the Mass the Mass, or is it the re-presentation of the singular sacrifice of Christ on Calvary?

Fair enough. I am fine with just calling it exercise. And I agree about those who use it spiritually. I have been lectured numerous times over the years about NOT mixing it with running, eating dairy, drinking alcohol, you name it. I have always resisted that as misguided and kept it very Western and secular. (True practitioners look down on you as not serious or committed.) I use it to achieve physical health; that kind of exercising has incredible benefits; it’s fun and easy to do. You improve at poses with practice very easily. What amazes me is how secular it is getting these days (no surprise to Christians); the old eastern traditions are fading out. Rest easy, secularism is killing those traditions with the same ease it is killing ours. Most participants in yoga I know don’t have a clue about the religious dimension. I even am struck at how much they have thrown out (the OM is now fading out and most don’t participate) and I never was into it.

 

[JamalChristophr]

This video by a Dominican seems good, though I"ve only watched a part of it so far. (It’s long, over 1 hour, and I have ADD)…but anyways…some may find it interesting:

Yoga…A Catholic Perspective

youtube.com/watch?v=OntZaZIke-o

Some might want to jump to 43:00 but it won’t provide the whole perpective he’s trying to convey.

 

[Havard]

Excerpts from a secular article about yoga that says it better than I could:

What people in the US are referring to as “yoga” is actually one aspect of a larger spiritual practice. Practitioners in the US are using asana, or “postures,” a series of poses used to prepare the body for meditation.

Yoga actually includes a combination of exercises, which are intended to connect people with the divine. It’s an aspect of Hindu faith with origins that are thousands of years past, and a very lengthy history of practice across Hindu communities in regions like modern-day India.

The asana are just one aspect of that practice. Along with the postures come breathwork, meditation, concentration, observances, withdrawal, restraints, and higher levels of meditation. These things are practiced as part of an interconnected system, and for some people, they are very integral to personal expressions of faith. That sure sounds a lot like a religious practice.

…

While many people appear uncomfortable when it comes to talking about cultural appropriation, yoga furnishes a textbook example; westerners lift something from another tradition, brand it as “exotic,” proceed to dilute and twist it to satisfy their own desires, and then call it their own. While claiming to honor the centuries of tradition involved, what they practice is so far from the actual yoga practiced by actual Hindus that it’s really just another form of trendy fitness, covered in New Age trappings.

Full article: xojane.com/issues/yoga-religious-cultural-appropriation

 

[St_Francis]

I’ve struggled to understand the Church’s position on yoga but for what it’s worth, here’s an article that might be of interest to some here:

Why Can’t Yoga Just Be an Exercise?

So maybe scientifically-arranged stretching exercises? I notice the position they had a photo of is very similar (but slightly different from) a normal stretching exercise?

OTOH, she used making the Sign of the Cross as an example. First, the Sign of the Cross would not do anything physically if a person did it. It is not designed to stretch muscles, develop strength, or anything like that, so it would be absurd to use it as a mere physical exercise.

At the same time, when a non-religious actor makes the Sign of the Cross in a production, does that mean he himself is doing something religious? No. He is portraying a character who would do that, but he himself is not doing something religious.

Perhaps the reason Catholicism doesn’t have stretches or exercises–dual-purpose actions-- as part of our worship is precisely that we are not to confuse making a series of moves with worship because the moves are in and of themselves meaningless? We kneel and stand and genuflect, but these are 1. solely cultural signs of respect, and 2. could not be considered good for the body in any way (stretching, exercising).

Really, when you think about it, the Pope is saying that these various activities will not, in and of themselves, lead one to God. The meditation of Zen, the movements and positions of yoga, the reading of the CCC, *these activities *are not what lead people to God. So I think that the activity doing yoga exercises, *without going further into the spiritual side, *is neutral.

 

[christofirst]

So maybe scientifically-arranged stretching exercises? I notice the position they had a photo of is very similar (but slightly different from) a normal stretching exercise?

OTOH, she used making the Sign of the Cross as an example. First, the Sign of the Cross would not do anything physically if a person did it. It is not designed to stretch muscles, develop strength, or anything like that, so it would be absurd to use it as a mere physical exercise.

At the same time, when a non-religious actor makes the Sign of the Cross in a production, does that mean he himself is doing something religious? No. He is portraying a character who would do that, but he himself is not doing something religious.

Perhaps the reason Catholicism doesn’t have stretches or exercises–dual-purpose actions-- as part of our worship is precisely that we are not to confuse making a series of moves with worship because the moves are in and of themselves meaningless? We kneel and stand and genuflect, but these are 1. solely cultural signs of respect, and 2. could not be considered good for the body in any way (stretching, exercising).

Really, when you think about it, the Pope is saying that these various activities will not, in and of themselves, lead one to God. The meditation of Zen, the movements and positions of yoga, the reading of the CCC, *these activities *are not what lead people to God. So I think that the activity doing yoga exercises, *without going further into the spiritual side, *is neutral.

In fact, the way Pope Francis mentions the Catechism along with yoga and Zen, all together to make his point, sounds more like a validation instead of a condemnation of yoga.

 

[FollowChrist34]

So maybe scientifically-arranged stretching exercises? I notice the position they had a photo of is very similar (but slightly different from) a normal stretching exercise?

OTOH, she used making the Sign of the Cross as an example. First, the Sign of the Cross would not do anything physically if a person did it. It is not designed to stretch muscles, develop strength, or anything like that, so it would be absurd to use it as a mere physical exercise.

At the same time, when a non-religious actor makes the Sign of the Cross in a production, does that mean he himself is doing something religious? No. He is portraying a character who would do that, but he himself is not doing something religious.

Perhaps the reason Catholicism doesn’t have stretches or exercises–dual-purpose actions-- as part of our worship is precisely that we are not to confuse making a series of moves with worship because the moves are in and of themselves meaningless? We kneel and stand and genuflect, but these are 1. solely cultural signs of respect, and 2. could not be considered good for the body in any way (stretching, exercising).

Really, when you think about it, the Pope is saying that these various activities will not, in and of themselves, lead one to God. The meditation of Zen, the movements and positions of yoga, the reading of the CCC, *these activities *are not what lead people to God. So **I think that the activity doing yoga exercises, *without going further into the spiritual side, ***is neutral.

Agreed. My current instructor is a secular Jewish, fire breathing feminist with an amazing lack of respect for the intricacies of yoga form (i.e., her directions are inconsistent and confusing). She mixes up “left” and “right” constantly. Kind of a weird obsession with Mae West. She gives us her impression of her on a regular basis and tells the new people her life story, over and over, as they come (and go).

 

[JamalChristophr]

Well, far as I know, the Church has no definitive teaching on going to a yoga class, so I suppose all of us Catholics can agree to disagree.

I was into sports a ton as a young person, so from my perspective, some classes could just be seen as stretching exercises which are quite similar to many sports stretching exercises and calisthenics.

Still, I would never recommend it to someone. Until the church has some definitive position, I suppose we’re just debating here. (I know, I know…I"m stating the obvious! )

 

[RosslynV]

The Pope not being very ecumenical here!

 

[adawgj]

I personally think this issue is utterly ridiculous, too much taboo and superstition for me.

 

[christofirst]

The Pope not being very ecumenical here!

Funny, I see just the opposite, based on what he actually said:

"You can take a million catechetical courses, a million courses in spirituality, a million courses in yoga, Zen, and all these things. But all of this will never be able to give you the freedom of being a child of God."

He seems to be acknowledging our search for God, whether it be through the Catechism, yoga or Zen, but study alone will not open us to be able to receive God’s love. He goes on to say:

"Only the Holy Spirit can ‘move the heart’ and make it ‘docile to the Lord, docile to the freedom of love.’"

 

[SWolf]

Agreed. My current instructor is a secular Jewish, fire breathing feminist with an amazing lack of respect for the intricacies of yoga form (i.e., her directions are inconsistent and confusing). She mixes up “left” and “right” constantly. Kind of a weird obsession with Mae West. She gives us her impression of her on a regular basis and tells the new people her life story, over and over, as they come (and go).

This doesn’t surprise me.

Modern Yoga exercises has next to nothing to do with Yoga as understood by Hinduism. Anyone who has read some of the Hindu Holy Books can see that Yoga pertains almost exclusively to mental exercises.

It was a marketing ploy that gained traction in the 60’s.

In a rare interview, BKS Iyengar, the 90-year old ambassador of yoga to the West, told me that his yoga, as taught to him by his master, was a purely physical exercise and completely unrelated to ancient philosophy. He says he invented and refined much of it himself. It wasn’t until 1960, while on a visit to London, that English intellectuals introduced Iyengar to the ancient “yoga sutras”. Five years later, he combined the yoga poses and the Hindu teachings together in his book “Light on Yoga,” which then sold hundreds of thousands of copies in the United States. And voila – the modern yoga craze was born. But it was basically a new age invention, not an ancient practice.

huffingtonpost.com/nicholas-rosen/going-to-the-mat-confessi_b_186332.html

 

[Path_Finder]

What do you make of this from National Catholic Register, apparently about the same homily from Pope Francis:

Catechism, yoga, Zen cannot open people’s hearts to God, pope says

ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/catechism-yoga-zen-cannot-open-peoples-hearts-god-pope-says

“Courses in yoga, Zen meditation, **even extensive studies in church teaching and spirituality ** can never free people enough to open their hearts to God and His love, Pope Francis said in a morning homily.”

If you see this homily as a condemnation of yoga and Zen, should we also conclude the Holy Father is condemning studying the Catechism and tenets of the Faith? Of course not!! It seems to me he is only saying that studying alone will not open our hearts to God’s love. I would like to see a full translation of this homily.

Excellent point and post.

 

[FollowChrist34]

This doesn’t surprise me.

Modern Yoga exercises has next to nothing to do with Yoga as understood by Hinduism. Anyone who has read some of the Hindu Holy Books can see that Yoga pertains almost exclusively to mental exercises.

It was a marketing ploy that gained traction in the 60’s.

huffingtonpost.com/nicholas-rosen/going-to-the-mat-confessi_b_186332.html

I didn’t think so. Back when I was an atheist around 19, I was really into Hinduism. I read tons of books about it and went around telling everyone I was a Hindu (aside from the books I didn’t really do much else). It faded in about six months. But at least I have some knowledge of the religion, and, no, most modern yoga classes don’t go there.

It’s funny, my yoga instructor is kind of unpopular. People keep complaining about her to the gym management (she misses classes, is late, etc.). I have never said a word (and there are issues) - I keep thinking what a great test she is for my Christian charity. The Pope would love it!

Besides, I reread his comments. He is just saying you won’t find God no matter how many yoga classes you take; that is not the same thing as condemning yoga as exercise. It’s criticizing looking for God in it instead of in Jesus and the Church. We’ve been down this misinterpreting the Pope’s comments road many, many times before…

 

[SWolf]

Besides, I reread his comments. He is just saying you won’t find God no matter how many yoga classes you take; that is not the same thing as condemning yoga as exercise. It’s criticizing looking for God in it instead of in Jesus and the Church. We’ve been down this misinterpreting the Pope comments road many, many times before…

Agreed. There is nothing in his homily I saw that a Catholic could have a disagreement with.

I could argue the prudence of putting Catechism classes in with the others, as that does help you UNDERSTAND the freedom of God, but I digress.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The article headline is misleading.

Here’s what the Pope actually said.

Catechism, yoga, Zen cannot open people’s hearts to God, pope says

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Courses in yoga, Zen meditation, even extensive studies in church teaching and spirituality can never free people enough to open their hearts to God and his love, Pope Francis said in a morning homily.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500093.htm

He didn’t specify Yoga in of itself, but also the Catechism and other religious attachments people cling to.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here it is again from Catholic News Service:

“Catechism, yoga, Zen cannot open people’s hearts to God’s love, pope says.”

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500093.htm

“Courses in yoga, Zen meditation, even extensive studies in church teaching and spirituality can never free people enough to open their hearts to God’s love.”

If you see Pope Francis telling us to stay away from yoga here, you must also conclude he is telling us to stay away from the Catechism. Both conclusions are wrong.

This is what the Pope actually said.

The Headline of the OP article is misleading and pretty much is what the Pope is speaking out against.

Jim

 

[_Abyssinia]

The Pope’s comments are more in depth admiteddly than the title portrays, but in general regarding yoga, the fact that Pietra Fitness for example, as cited in post 32 do not ‘incorporate’ multiple different facets of what is presumably traditional yoga shows that they think there is an issue with certain elements of yoga. Not all Catholics that do yoga do it through a Catholic organisation that has adapted, changed or left out certain things that may be an issue. The question is, can you do the OM and the other things that that Pietra Fitness has left out, and detach it from the spiritual side?

 

[Faith1960]

ansa.it/english/news/vatican/2015/01/09/pope-says-yoga-courses-have-no-answers_e0ef3974-4581-4d82-b698-2458d775444e.html

Notice he’s not saying it leads to Satan or that it’s sinful?

 

[Faith1960]

Because it is ALSO about relaxing the body and breathing.
It would be a mouthful to say, “I’m going to my relaxing stretching breathing class. Be back later.” It’s just yoga.

I agree with Pope Francis that it doesn’t have any answers, just like a spin class doesn’t, either.

Agreed.