Pope Seeks End to Death Penalty

  • Thread starter Thread starter TEPO
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
bbarrick8383 said:
Don’t know if you read the interview with a psychologist that has studied solitary confinement that I posted earlier. But I have to disagree with the CCC here.
Click to expand...
Well, ok, that’s your choice.
bbarrick8383 said:
Many people, including myself, would look at the death penalty as more humane than solitary confinement.
Click to expand...
People use similar arguments to support euthanasia. But the dignity of human life precludes any sort of mercykilling.
bbarrick8383 said:
In which these techniques could be considered by the prisoner to be more severe than the death penalty itself.
Click to expand...
This isn’t a matter for debate. You may have your opinion, but the Catechism prescribes certain circumstances under which the death penalty is morally permissible, and when the option of incarceration can achieve the goal of societal protection the death penalty is morally impermissible.
bbarrick8383 said:
That’s good, it doesn’t make anyone else less Catholic if they disagree with you.
Click to expand...
I have never said it does. You are correct that one may disagree with the Catechism and the holy father and be no less Catholic for it.

Nevertheless, I would urge that all Catholics to be obedient to Church teaching.
 
stanczyk said:
People use similar arguments to support euthanasia. But the dignity of human life precludes any sort of mercykilling.
Click to expand...
There is a huge difference here, euthanasia advocates relieving someone of pain and suffering which is related to causes beyond anyone’s control.

In solitary confinement, the person is subjected to pain and suffering at the order of another human being.

Whereas the death penalty can be issued with no pain and suffering, leaving what dignity the person has left intact.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
There is a huge difference here, euthanasia advocates relieving someone of pain and suffering which is related to causes beyond anyone’s control.

In solitary confinement, the person is subjected to pain and suffering at the order of another human being.

Whereas the death penalty can be issued with no pain and suffering, leaving what dignity the person has left intact.
Click to expand...
You seem to have a different definition of human dignity than does the Church.

The fact of the matter is that the death penalty cannot be inflicted when there are alternative means of providing for the protection of society than execution. Mercykilling does not enter into the equation. According to the Church, “mercy” is not a justification for killing in euthanasia or capital punishment.
 
stanczyk said:
You seem to have a different definition of human dignity than does the Church.

The fact of the matter is that the death penalty cannot be inflicted when there are alternative means of providing for the protection of society than execution. Mercykilling does not enter into the equation. According to the Church, “mercy” is not a justification for killing in euthanasia or capital punishment.
Click to expand...
I just can not imagine being forced to live a life of solitary confinement. It just seams even more inhumane, and I’m sure it is for some criminals. Some of them probably deserve it, but the point of punishment is not to seek vengeance is it…

The Church is absolutely right when it comes to euthanasia. I can not wrap my head around it’s thinking on capital punishment in the cases where it would be better off than being confined.

For anyone who doesn’t think solitary confinement is torture, how long would you last and maintain mental stability?
 
TEPO said:
"*Pope Benedict XVI voiced support Wednesday for political actions around the world aimed at eliminating the death penalty, reflecting his stance as an opponent of capital punishment.

He made the comments during his weekly public audience to participants at a meeting being promoted by the Catholic Sant’Egidio Community on the theme “No Justice without Life.*”

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-seeks-end-death-penalty-15056658#.TteRv9U7Isk
Click to expand...
Ryan saw it was a sham too. So what is the point? It takes the catholic church a long time to decide on this when they are no longer the ones in power to send people to their deaths directly?
 
bbarrick8383 said:
There is a huge difference here, euthanasia advocates relieving someone of pain and suffering which is related to causes beyond anyone’s control.

In solitary confinement, the person is subjected to pain and suffering at the order of another human being.

Whereas the death penalty can be issued with no pain and suffering, leaving what dignity the person has left intact.
Click to expand...
So killing a person gives them dignity, by keeping them from having to live in prison? I know you’re not Catholic, but I have here not 3 ft from me a copy of St. Augustine’s “City of God,” and it just so happens that I recently started reading it, and one of the first chapters relates why it is wrong to kill oneself to avoif physical indignities (in reference to the treatment of Christians by barbarians). If that is wrong (as it is for Catholics), I can’t imagine how murdering someone to prevent an indignity can possibly be justified in a Catholic framework.

The Pope is here at odds with the standard conservative position on the death penalty; that being, a stance advocating a relativel ‘liberal’ use of it. There’s no way around that fact.
 
Raskolnikov said:
So killing a person gives them dignity, by keeping them from having to live in prison? I know you’re not Catholic, but I have here not 3 ft from me a copy of St. Augustine’s “City of God,” and it just so happens that I recently started reading it, and one of the first chapters relates why it is wrong to kill oneself to avoif physical indignities (in reference to the treatment of Christians by barbarians). If that is wrong (as it is for Catholics), I can’t imagine how murdering someone to prevent an indignity can possibly be justified in a Catholic framework.

The Pope is here at odds with the standard conservative position on the death penalty; that being, a stance advocating a relativel ‘liberal’ use of it. There’s no way around that fact.
Click to expand...
As I pointed out earlier, solitary confinement can cause serious mental and emotional pain and damage. It’s not just about dignity, it is in my opinion torture. And as the article I pointed out earlier shows, in almost every case of torture, solitary confinement was used along with other methods.

Me personally, and I would think some men would feel the same way, solitary confinement would be worse than being put to death. Especially if we are talking about years of solitary confinement.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
As I pointed out earlier, solitary confinement can cause serious mental and emotional pain and damage. It’s not just about dignity, it is in my opinion torture. And as the article I pointed out earlier shows, in almost every case of torture, solitary confinement was used along with other methods.

Me personally, and I would think some men would feel the same way, solitary confinement would be worse than being put to death. Especially if we are talking about years of solitary confinement.
Click to expand...
That it is torture seems more like an argument for changing the practice than killing the person. I would say that perhaps a lesser evil need not be chosen if an alternative to either is viable. The argument might be made that is supposedly far too expensive to keep a capital offender alive in reasonable conditions; in which case, it seems to be an issue of how much society is willing to pay to keep someone alive.
 
Raskolnikov said:
That it is torture seems more like an argument for changing the practice than killing the person. I would say that perhaps a lesser evil need not be chosen if an alternative to either is viable. The argument might be made that is supposedly far too expensive to keep a capital offender alive in reasonable conditions; in which case, it seems to be an issue of how much society is willing to pay to keep someone alive.
Click to expand...
Yes, but what do you do. I’m not expert in the matter, but I would have thought by now that someone would have come up with better ideas than what we have. A person has to be punished, but solitary confinement is imo worse than death. People don’t like the idea of death, personally I think it should depend on the crime and the evidence.

Those who use the death penalty on cases where the evidence has changed or witnesses have altered their story, such as one of the most recent ones which I believe was in Georgia are not doing themselves any favors. I can not support the death penalty in such a case.

There was another one not too long ago, where the man was found walking the streets in his diaper as a toddler. He was addicted to drugs by the age of 10 or so and ended up killing someone in his late teens early twenties. I feel bad for the victim and the family, but once you hear the guys story you can’t help but feel some sadness for him having been treated in such a way so early on in life.
 
Am I seeing a poster with a Guy Fawkes mask posting on this thread?
Or did I have one too many?
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Yes you are. I love the movie.
Click to expand...
Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it’s my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

Are you like, a crazy person?

I am quite sure they will say so.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I will try to find what you find in it, maybe I just need some more pain killers to try to do it.
Click to expand...
V for Vendetta is a fantastic social commentary on the stark differences between independent thinkers versus capitulators to the state sponsored status quo.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
👍

Around here, I’m quite sure they think we are Scott.

I’m not sure the what political affiliation the Wachowski brothers are, but they can make some darn good movies.
Click to expand...
As a dyed in the wool Austrian school, free market libertarian, most of the people here think I am nuts and have pointedly told me so. I guess I am crazy for thinking that I can manage my own life without having some guv’mint bureaucrat telling me how, when, and where to do it.
 
stanczyk said:
The holy father is urging us to work to eliminate the death penalty. Logically, it is contrary to the holy father’s urging if one works to preserve the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Which is far different than the Church requiring Catholics to support the death penalty.
 
iamrefreshed said:
So, when do you think he will speak for the Church and declare the death penalty immoral ex cathedra?
Click to expand...
Never. To do so means that it is immoral, nothwithstanding time. Since the Popes of years past have spoken in favor, and indeed the Catechism teaches that CP is acceptable (in certain circumstances), then he will never be able to do this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top