Pope set to bring back Latin Mass in face of opposition (May 14 article from TimesOnline)

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One should always feel at home with any Catholic Mass. If not, something is definitely wrong.
How about those who can’t understand Latin and therefore feel more at home with English? Not everyone studied Latin at school. Even if it’s possible to know what’s going on or follow in a Missal, is it really possible to concentrate and fully participate if the language is as good as foreign?
 
How about those who can’t understand Latin and therefore feel more at home with English? Not everyone studied Latin at school. Even if it’s possible to know what’s going on or follow in a Missal, is it really possible to concentrate and fully participate if the language is as good as foreign?
There is nothing stopping us from learning Latin, I’m working on it now myself. Also, there is anything to stop you from acquiring a 1962 missal, which has everything in both Latin and English. Was there anything wrong with the Saints? No, because they took the time to understand. We are in such a hurry to go in, go through the motions and get out that it would be hard to absorb, much less understand what is going on at Mass. This is also true for the Novus Ordo. If one doesn’t put the effort into it, one can’t expect to get the graces from it.
 
How about those who can’t understand Latin and therefore feel more at home with English? Not everyone studied Latin at school. Even if it’s possible to know what’s going on or follow in a Missal, is it really possible to concentrate and fully participate if the language is as good as foreign?
Yes, because you are participating by praying the Mass, meditating on the Sacred Mysteries, and uniting yourself to the prayers of the Church as the Mass unfolds. That is actual participation and is what Pope Pius X spoke about.

As for learning the Latin, that comes really fast. After just a few Masses, most people pick up on it. But no worries, the NO isn’t going anywhere, and no one will be forced against their will to attend a TLM…
 
How about those who can’t understand Latin and therefore feel more at home with English? Not everyone studied Latin at school. Even if it’s possible to know what’s going on or follow in a Missal, is it really possible to concentrate and fully participate if the language is as good as foreign?
I can’t tell you where you should feel at home. But do know that Latin has been and is the preserver of our beautiful faith and should be carefully adhered to as much as possible. God’s word is never-changing. Translations and interpretations are always changing.
 
How about those who can’t understand Latin and therefore feel more at home with English? Not everyone studied Latin at school. Even if it’s possible to know what’s going on or follow in a Missal, is it really possible to concentrate and fully participate if the language is as good as foreign?
You can easily follow along by using a Missal.

What about Catholics who are not multi-lingual and go to Mass abroad? Latin would be easier to follow with a little practice (and a Missal) than a Mass in a vernacular other than one’s own.
 
I completely understand arguing for the TLM to be more available… I don’t understand why the subject of removing the NO all together even came up… (maybe I’m just misinterpreting?)

It seems to me that some folks are a little prideful on the issue. It’s the Holy Mass. It’s the Eucharist. C’mon, it’s JESUS! We should be united no matter what language it’s in, and respect whatever decision the Magesterium makes on the matter.
 
You can easily follow along by using a Missal.

What about Catholics who are not multi-lingual and go to Mass abroad? Latin would be easier to follow with a little practice (and a Missal) than a Mass in a vernacular other than one’s own.
And the best thing is that you can have a Missal in Latin and the language of your choice (English, French, German, Spanish) and never feel out of place.
 
This is a good conversation and a needed one I believe. I think we should start new threads regarding the different topics and issues mentioned here. I give my thanks to the Moderator, Jean Anthony for being as tolerant as he is.
 
You can easily follow along by using a Missal.

What about Catholics who are not multi-lingual and go to Mass abroad? Latin would be easier to follow with a little practice (and a Missal) than a Mass in a vernacular other than one’s own.
Having attended mass in various European countries whose native language was not English, it was always a relief and joy when I could find a mass that was either a Latin NO or a TLM. My fluency in those languages were elementary, so although I could get around town, it wasn’t the same for during the mass. I’m not against the NO mass and will view it as a legitimate mass unless the Church declares that it isn’t. But it would be wonderful to have more access to a TLM. Right now, it just seems they tuck the parishes that are permitted to do the TLM in out-of-the-way areas that are hard to get to. My husband has made a huge decision to begin attending the TLM parish after his season with the Cathedral choir, but he is also of the same mindset as myself regarding the NO. We’re both young Catholics and have attended TLM mass when we can and have seen a difference in reverence and prayerfulness. Although he loves our Cathedral, he is longing for more and is finding it at this TLM parish. But he says if the Pope comes through with this and the TLM is brought back to the Cathedral, he’ll come back there. A couple of years ago, we had a newly ordained priest say his first mass at the Cathedral and was granted permission to do the TLM (belongs to same TLM parish). The place was packed like it was a huge diocesan event - about 1500. They weren’t allowed to “advertise”, but word got around at least amongst those who regularly attend TLM. I, unfortunately, did not know about it, so we were unable to go. Amazing! Since I’m on the music staff at the Cathedral and my husband in the choir.
 
I believe that the “venacular language” argument is hazardous because it conceals the destructive nature of the Novus Ordum. The NO was not simply a translation of Latin to English. It was the excuse to “modernize” the Liturgy by judicious selection of particular English wording. It has become a vehicle for almost continuous introduction of Liturgical changes over the past 40 years.

The Liturgy of the Mass now has no stability and is the continual target of “enlightened” tinkerers. I won’t even go into how much banality has been introduced into the Mass since VCII, stripping it of most of its dignity.

Worst of all to me, the NO has virtually eradicated the timelessness of the Latin rite and shattered the living link to so many generations of devout Catholics from every culture touched by the True Faith, and gravely weakened the real “catholic” nature of Catholicism.
 
The Pope cannot issue an “opt out” clause unless he issues a new Roman Missal for the Traditional Roman Liturgy (TLM). In the Missal it states that no priest may deviate from it whatsoever I am sure- the priest must pray every prayer as listed there- no deviation.

Ken
 
The TLM is a fad? I am seriously considering the TLM, and the people I have spoken to about it understand the Mass much better than most of the Catholics I know who don’t attend the TLM. I don’t think your assessment is based on reality. Your personal experience may be clouding your judgment.

Originally Posted by LogosSokratikos
The young are quite prone to the latest fad. They might find not understanding the Mass a good in itself. When I was a small boy, I didn’t understand much of my family’s Catholicism, even in plain English. It was until I could understand it when doubt ensued and that wasn’t particularly nice.
Depends on the context. For adolescents prone to go for everything new and exotic, it is quite probable.
 
Only for those that insist that they will never study it.
I have studied it; it simply is not a language I can grasp meanings from without serious effort for even simple phrases. (Russian, however, made great sense to me.)

As to vain repetition: if the faithful do not speak the liturgical language, then yes, it is in violation of the scriptural prohibitions. For me, latin is not prayer, but simply rote repetition. Read the Vatican II post conciliar documents… where the issue is noted.

Heck, for many, the weekly vernacular becomes vain repetition.

As to not having seen the TLM: no, I have not. I’ve seen the DLM (Dominican Latin Mass) and the CLM (Celtic Latin Mass) which differed only in slight ways. I’ve read the sacramentary of the 1962 missal, and of the 1965 (Latin propers, latin and english dual rubrics).

The liturgy is beautiful. But it’s not intelligible to a great many when in Latin.
 
Originally Posted by LogosSokratikos
The young are quite prone to the latest fad.
Regard my previous post about the fad issue. [EDITED TO ADD POST LINK: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2230617&postcount=113]
And have you considered that it just might be the Holy Spirit leading them there?
In the context of Catholic beliefs, yes. But I think my previous post just above, covers that one too. In the context of Catholic beliefs, both are possibilities, unless ya get Machiavellic and you don’t mind why they go, especially if they prefer an unintelligible language than vernacular (e.g. English).
The growing interest in and support for the ancient Mass is part of God’s plan for renewing His church on earth. How can it be anything else?
Bring common folk using a language that hasn’t had native common folk speaker since -wahooooooooo!- ?

Yeah, maybe… Coming from a deity who’s first plan to wipe sin from earth was drown everyone, it seems coherent.
 
The liturgy is beautiful. But it’s not intelligible to a great many when in Latin.
I travel extensively, so I don’t get your viewpoint. I’ve learned a little bit of Japanese, Chinese and Dutch, in order to deal with the locals. All of these are difficult languages.

You don’t need to be fluent in Latin - just to learn the parts of the Mass and some of the common prayers. For those who have been vainly repeating them in English, maybe learning them in a new language will help them remember what they are praying as they learn the translation.
 
Some please explain to me what makes you think you have to know Latin to be able to participate in the TLM cause I don’t understand this train of thought at all.
 
Some please explain to me what makes you think you have to know Latin to be able to participate in the TLM cause I don’t understand this train of thought at all.
Lack of experience with the TLM. Duh? 😛
 
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