Pope set to bring back Latin Mass in face of opposition (May 14 article from TimesOnline)

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palmas85 said:
When the mass was in Latin I will guarantee you that people knew exactly what was going on, probably to a greater degre than today because we were taught about the faith. It seems that today many if not most CCD programs teach little more than lukewarm platitudes about social justice and precious little about the faith itself.
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How was it then that they were not more able to defend their Faith
when it was slagged off by the anti-catholics?
 
burnside said:
How was it then that they were not more able to defend their Faith
when it was slagged off by the anti-catholics?
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becuase anti-catholics didn’t criticise Mass… they criticized doctrine. Believe you me people knew what was going on during Mass even more than people do today…the Mass wasn’t a weekly exercise or lecture in Apologetics or theology…it was worship of GOD. One can know what is going on at Mass but be poorly learned of the doctrines of the faith… Catechesis primarily occurs outside of Mass. Also keep in mind that Catholics and Protestants were/and still are not even on the Same planet on most things from a theological standpoint. An argument between a Catholic and a protestant could be likened to a person arguing that a tree is Greener than a hill is steep. Apples to oranges etc. etc.
 
burnside said:
My reply,(which was ignored)was that in a poor district a lot of people
did not possess a missal.
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People did not have handmissals until the late 1800’s, so why is it that people need to have a handmissal at all? For over 1600 years the Church doctrine and Mass have been preserved in spoken and written Latin. I for one am very thankful because imagine what today would be like if Latin had not been preserved and everyone like the the pro-vernacularists would have set doctrine to their own understanding of it as time went on. The Tower of Babel would have been pale by comparison.
 
burnside said:
How was it then that they were not more able to defend their Faith
when it was slagged off by the anti-catholics?
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Talk about anti-Catholicism. Ever heard of the Council of Trent? Upheld the prevention of translation of the liturgy into vernacular. I’d say that they did a terrific job of defending the Faith.
 
👍 I feel the Latin Mass the way to go in these times. It is a universal language thaat all can understand between countries. This would help bond all Catholics togrether. PAX.
 
Law students use Spanish and French; Medical students use German; etc; why not Latin as language for adoring God?
 
Some cry about the fact that more people will leave if the TLM is restored.More people have left the church in the last 40 yrs(since the NO Mass) than they had in the previous 80 yrs(pre Vatican II) and probably longer.If people do leave the church over the TLM,then IMO they never believed in the Nicene or Apostles Creed or that the Pope is in fact the successor to Peter in the first place.So technically they were just here and not really Catholic.The same goes for people who left the church because of the NO Mass.
 
Aramis said:
For me, I have no problem with the 1962 missal’s form and rubrics only with Latin.

Latin is a bar to comprehension. It is a hurdle which sets participation to a minimum. Rote prayer (without comprehension) is banned in the bible; removing the vernacular turns it into “vain repetition.”
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It sounds like you’ve never seen a Latin Mass. Other than the fact there are numerous ways of getting the English translations so you can follow along, I didn’t know comprehension was required to pray. How is reverently praying something you maybe don’t’ completely understand worse than rattling off any pray in English with out really thinking about what your saying. Most people I know that have attended the Latin Mass for a while they dont’ know the literal translation of the words (very few if any have actually ever studied Latin at all) do understand whats going on and the prays being said. There are actually quite a few places where the entire congregation says the responses in Latin! I guarantee you in Churches where this is practiced all most all of them (with out studying Latin) know fully what they are saying. There are quite a few parts of the mass I’m seeing return to the NO in the form of there Latin translations. Is the singing of Kyrie or the Agnus Dei a bar to comprehension?

A bar to comprehension… I bet most NO know more liturgical Latin than they realize just because of it slowly returning back to the liturgy.
 
The Mass in all languages reminds me personally of the Tower of Babel. It creates confusion not unity for the church as a whole.

Now don’t get me wrong here: the homily, prayer requests and other local news should be in the local language. This way the local people can know what is going on in their parish. But, the Mass itself should be in the same language everywhere so that everyone who attends is able to follow and worship no matter where they are from.
 
KeithL said:
Some cry about the fact that more people will leave if the TLM is restored.More people have left the church in the last 40 yrs(since the NO Mass) than they had in the previous 80 yrs(pre Vatican II) and probably longer.If people do leave the church over the TLM,then IMO they never believed in the Nicene or Apostles Creed or that the Pope is in fact the successor to Peter in the first place.So technically they were just here and not really Catholic.The same goes for people who left the church because of the NO Mass.
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On the contrary, people, especially young people, are heading in droves to the nearest Latin Mass they can find. This has been well documented by the media lately. The only mass exodus from the Church over the TLM will be* into* the TLM, [edited by Moderator].
 
Aramis said:
For me, I have no problem with the 1962 missal’s form and rubrics only with Latin.

Latin is a bar to comprehension. It is a hurdle which sets participation to a minimum. Rote prayer (without comprehension) is banned in the bible; removing the vernacular turns it into “vain repetition.”
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What you are saying is that the Church had “vain repetition” at the core of its liturgical life for many hundreds of years (Latin has not been the vernacular for the majority of western Christians for perhaps 1000 years, maybe a lot longer than that). How could the Church be so wrong for so many centuries?
 
VociMike said:
What you are saying is that the Church had “vain repetition” at the core of its liturgical life for many hundreds of years (Latin has not been the vernacular for the majority of western Christians for perhaps 1000 years, maybe a lot longer than that). How could the Church be so wrong for so many centuries?
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Official Sermo Latina was out of synch with the vernacular since before anno domini. Curious people would convert to a religion they wouldn’t fully understand. The hellenes probably had it better, there was no “official” language for Greek, the NT was pretty much all written in the people’s living language.
 
paramedicgirl said:
On the contrary, people, especially young people, are heading in droves to the nearest Latin Mass they can find. This has been well documented by the media lately. The only mass exodus from the Church over the TLM will be* into* the TLM, [edited by Moderator].
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The young are quite prone to the latest fad. They might find not understanding the Mass a good in itself. When I was a small boy, I didn’t understand much of my family’s Catholicism, even in plain English. It was until I could understand it when doubt ensued and that wasn’t particularly nice.
 
I’m a recent convert, and I love Latin Masses sometimes. I appreciate the beauty of the language and the fact that it was used in Holy Mother Church for so long, but I also really, really like that I can hear it in my own language. It helps me to better understand, it’s more comfortable. If I had to go to a Latin mass all the time, i could deal with that, but I like having it in English 😦
 
The TLM is a fad? I am seriously considering the TLM, and the people I have spoken to about it understand the Mass much better than most of the Catholics I know who don’t attend the TLM. I don’t think your assessment is based on reality. Your personal experience may be clouding your judgment.
LogosSokratikos said:
The young are quite prone to the latest fad. They might find not understanding the Mass a good in itself. When I was a small boy, I didn’t understand much of my family’s Catholicism, even in plain English. It was until I could understand it when doubt ensued and that wasn’t particularly nice.
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paramedicgirl said:
On the contrary, people, especially young people, are heading in droves to the nearest Latin Mass they can find. This has been well documented by the media lately. The only mass exodus from the Church over the TLM will be* into* the TLM, [edited by Moderator].
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Also the TLM tends to bring out the larger families as well. And when THOSE kids grow up and THEIR kids grow up…
 
LogosSokratikos said:
The young are quite prone to the latest fad. They might find not understanding the Mass a good in itself. When I was a small boy, I didn’t understand much of my family’s Catholicism, even in plain English. It was until I could understand it when doubt ensued and that wasn’t particularly nice.
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The Mass of the Ages is far from a fad. And have you considered that it just might be the Holy Spirit leading them there? The growing interest in and support for the ancient Mass is part of God’s plan for renewing His church on earth. How can it be anything else?
 
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