Pope shakes hands with woman priest

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Well, as we know, she’s not really a priest. The Holy Father was probably just being courteous to a local leader.
 
Cactus said:
Well, as we know, she’s not really a priest. The Holy Father was probably just being courteous to a local leader.
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True, but she claims to be one, and also she supports women bishops.
 
sidbrown said:
True, but she claims to be one, and also she supports women bishops.
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Yes, but since the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize the validity of Anglican orders, I’m not sure that it really matters.

The Archbishop of Canterbury isn’t actually an archbishop (or even a priest), from the standpoint of the Catholic Church, but he is an important leader of the Anglican ecclesial community. Both leaders (Rev Dr Jane Hedges and Archbishop Rowan Williams) deserve to be treated with respect for their leadership within their faith community.
 
Dale_M said:
Yes, but since the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize the validity of Anglican orders, I’m not sure that it really matters.

The Archbishop of Canterbury isn’t actually an archbishop (or even a priest), from the standpoint of the Catholic Church, but he is an important leader of the Anglican ecclesial community. Both leaders (Rev Dr Jane Hedges and Archbishop Rowan Williams) deserve to be treated with respect for their leadership within their faith community.
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Ecclesial community?
 
Eh, it’s the Church of England, not the Catholic Church.

Just because he disagrees with a viewpoint, doesn’t mean he can’t extend to her love, charity, and friendliness.

Of only other people followed in his example.
 
Adam_Warlock said:
Ecclesial community?
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Yes, it sounds odd, doesn’t it? I seem to recall (and if I am wrong, hope to be corrected) that the Catholic Church doesn’t regard the Protestant denominations as Churches but as a step down from that status. Ecclesial community seems (if I remember correctly) to be the term which is formally used. I used the phrase to simply draw attention to the difference in how the Catholic Church regards the Anglican Church, as opposed to say, the Greek Orthodox Church.

I quickly looked up the Catechism section regarding non-Catholic Christianity. It says:
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
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vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
 
The Pope has no authority over the Church of England, so it seems he was just extending a peaceful sign to them. Just because we don’t agree with their ordination policies doesn’t mean we cannot treat them like our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Now, if it was a woman who claimed to be a priest in the Catholic Church, then I would have something to say. 🙂
 
Dale_M said:
Yes, it sounds odd, doesn’t it? I seem to recall (and if I am wrong, hope to be corrected) that the Catholic Church doesn’t regard the Protestant denominations as Churches but as a step down from that status. Ecclesial community seems (if I remember correctly) to be the term which is formally used. I used the phrase to simply draw attention to the difference in how the Catholic Church regards the Anglican Church, as opposed to say, the Greek Orthodox Church.

I quickly looked up the Catechism section regarding non-Catholic Christianity. It says:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
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Ahh. Interesting. You put forth some extra effort there; thank you!
 
The ordination of women is a “grave crime” only within the Catholic church. There is a distinction between moral laws, which apply to everyone, and church laws, which apply only to Catholics, or even specifically to groups within the church (eg. priests).
 
Edmundus1581 said:
The ordination of women is a “grave crime” only within the Catholic church. There is a distinction between moral laws, which apply to everyone, and church laws, which apply only to Catholics, or even specifically to groups within the church (eg. priests).
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So you would say that this is only a Church law and not a moral law, and as such, can be changed sometime in the future, as other Church laws have been changed?
 
sidbrown said:
Pope Benedict XVI greeted and shook hands with a woman priest, Rev Dr Jane Hedges, canon steward of the Abbey. She is also a campaigner for women bishops. It is noteworthy that the Vatican has said that the ordination of women is a grave crime (July 15, 2010), but still the Pope shakes hands with a woman priest.
Please see:
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8010064/Pope-shakes-hands-with-woman-priest-in-historic-service-at-Abbey.html
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He was just being nice. Maybe he thought she was trick or treating or something.
 
sidbrown said:
So you would say that this is only a Church law and not a moral law, and as such, can be changed sometime in the future, as other Church laws have been changed?
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Tough question - well done 🙂

I’ve looked again at the document in question, and it actually identifies the attempted ordination of women as a “grave delict” against the sacraments.

So, then it is more than a church law - agreed, and your point is well made.

Nevertheless the document is specifically addressed to Catholics, and, more particularly, to senior clergy. In my reading, it would not actually apply even to me, if I were to attempt to “ordain” a woman.

My point is that you are incorrect to invoke the document in the context of the Holy Father shaking hands with the woman “priest” of another community.
 
sidbrown said:
Pope Benedict XVI greeted and shook hands with a woman priest, Rev Dr Jane Hedges, canon steward of the Abbey. She is also a campaigner for women bishops. It is noteworthy that the Vatican has said that the ordination of women is a grave crime (July 15, 2010), but still the Pope shakes hands with a woman priest.
Please see:
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8010064/Pope-shakes-hands-with-woman-priest-in-historic-service-at-Abbey.html
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See, this is why I am so glad I am not the pope. If I smile and say “Hi” to someone, that somehow automatically means “I rubber-stamp everything you say and stand for, I acknowledge the validity of everything you claim about yourself, and I support whatever you will endorse in the future”.
 
Apollos said:
See, this is why I am so glad I am not the pope. If I smile and say “Hi” to someone, that somehow automatically means “I rubber-stamp everything you say and stand for, I acknowledge the validity of everything you claim about yourself, and I support whatever you will endorse in the future”.
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Oh, what a pity. I think you’d make a great pope! Any chance of reconsidering?
 
The Pope is setting an example for all of us in that we don’t have to be rude towards people of other religions and to those holding different beliefs to us.

Offending people of other religions puts a huge stumbling block in their way of ever converting to Catholicism.

People are really hurt when they have been offended or slighted and human nature sees to it that we remember insults and slights of others more than good favours.
 
What would you have the Pope do? Fight people he doesn’t agree with? He is setting a precedent for all Catholics to lay down their bias, even those that are Church promoted, and love thy neighbour.
 
sidbrown said:
So you would say that this is only a Church law and not a moral law, and as such, can be changed sometime in the future, as other Church laws have been changed?
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NO, it is more than just a Church law and it cannot be changed as Pope John Paul II made VERY clear. I think were making a mountain out of a mole hill here and need to get back to clear thinking!.
The Holy Father is reaching out to all in a jester of love and friendship but that certainly doesn’t mean he agrees with everything they say and do. Common sense would tell us that.

Time will show the fruits of his historic visit to the United Kingdom. God Bless, Memaw
 
sidbrown said:
Pope Benedict XVI greeted and shook hands with a woman priest, Rev Dr Jane Hedges, canon steward of the Abbey. She is also a campaigner for women bishops. It is noteworthy that the Vatican has said that the ordination of women is a grave crime (July 15, 2010), but still the Pope shakes hands with a woman priest.
Please see:
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8010064/Pope-shakes-hands-with-woman-priest-in-historic-service-at-Abbey.html
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And the Word was made flesh, and He dwelt among us…
And He sat down at table with sinners, and the Pharisees rebuked Him because of it…

Don’t be a Pharisee…
 
Adam_Warlock said:
Ahh. Interesting. You put forth some extra effort there; thank you!
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Oh, you’re welcome. 🙂

I had used an obscure, and odd sounding, phrase so you were right to ask about it. I should have explained it better when I made the post, so apologize to everyone for any moments of “Huh?” readers might have experienced. Mea culpa.
 
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