Pope signs "Fratelli Tutti"

[billsherman]

All Christians and people of good will are today called to work not only for the abolition of the death penalty, legal or illegal, in all its forms,

I haven’t read it yet, but I very much look forward to it.

If there was any ambiguity about the inadmissibility of the death penalty (there wasn’t), it seems as if the Holy Father has crushed that. Can’t get any clearer than this.

 

[pnewton]

but with whom we can still find common ground, and those who find religion completely irrelevant.

That is an interesting way to word it. Because we care about moral issues, our religion is very relevant, as it is for devout Muslims. So our differences are also very relevant. But when it comes to common moral ground, our enemy should not be each other. I first came across this concept in a book by Peter Kreeft entitled, Ecumenical Jihad.

 

[christofirst]

I read that book too.

 

[umamibella]

I was asking the person who began this thread to clarify why they gave such a negative assessment of this document, and it seems its author, that included:

However, it is a typical Pope Francis document

everyone in the world seems to hate each other and can’t get along,

Other unnecessary or harmful points include:

However, none of these are new revelations, and are just standard Catholic fare.

Ultimately, I am not sure what the purpose of the document is other than a vehicle for the Pope to set down his thoughts on how he believes the “common good” should be achieved

I like to give him the benefit of the doubt when possible, but this document, while not really revealing any new thoughts of his, seems to be a massive lost opportunity

Instead, he hands off the responsibility of salvation to government structures.

It’s kind of just a “best of Pope Francis’s thoughts on getting along through government” codified in a single work.

Each of these should be examined in light of specific aspects of the document by the OP to make such claims.

 

[pnewton]

The topics are too diverse to have a conversation in one thread I think. As time goes on, I think I will find myself referring back to this document in future threads though, that are more specific.

 

[umamibella]

The topics are too diverse to have a conversation in one thread I think.

Are you the Op?

 

[pnewton]

No, our names appear on each of our posts.

 

[umamibella]

No, our names appear on each of our posts

I ask because you seem to be replying to my posts to the OP.

 

[umamibella]

https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/pope-francis-new-encyclical-fratelli-tutti/

 

[GioG12]

…

 

[Maximian]

gravitas

Gravitas is often measured by weight, hence the name. We can easily judge the importance of this document by weighing it on a set of kitchen scales.

This approach is similar to that of the Oxford don who marked his pupils’ essays by throwing them downstairs. Since on average the heaviest essays travelled fathest, higher marks were awarded to those nearest the bottom step.

 

[umamibella]

I thought exactly the same but that would mean “Everyone’s a fruit” which is obviously totally inappropriate for a Vatican document.

Know the translation of Fratelli Tutti?
Fratelli Tutti: on Fraternity and Social Friendship.”

 

[christofirst]

Yes, well I was thinking more of our current meaning of gravitas, which is importance and seriousness, as in, we the faithful should take this important teaching from Pope Francis seriously.

Pope Pius XII taught that the doctrines put forth in an encyclical “cannot any longer be considered a question of free discussion among theologians.” That sounds like gravitas to me.

I do see, however, that Pope Francis usually prefers to coax rather than demand. Therefore, I can already see that his repeated plea to abolish the death penalty, for example, is being met with the usual resistance, and his directing us away from so-called trickle-down economics and unregulated capitalism is also again being dismissed by those who are certain that they know better.

Others may see it differently, but in general I’m seeing this encyclical being received with praise from progressives and criticism from conservatives, which is sad since the whole point of the document is to draw us all together, and to remind us that we’re all interconnected and interdependent.

 

[pnewton]

That is the nature of CAF. There is a way of having private discussions, though even then, no one is obligated to reply. Often times the OP’s will never even reply back. But in any case, there are no one-on-one threads. I meant no offense.

 

[umamibella]

Thanks pnewton.

 

[Maximian]

My view is that the arguments are not well put forward, and the document as a whole has suffered from verbosity which is the mother of vagueness.

I wish that the Vatican would employ a real intellectual capable of setting out ideas with precision and economy of style. The old discipline of composing in Latin had the useful bye-product of focussing the writers’ minds as well as leaving less room for misunderstanding.

 

[stpurl]

The entire world has suffered from ambiguity with regard to the written word and, in the last couple of decades, from a ‘Twitterspeak’ communication and a shift from.a word expressing a clear definition or definitions to a word simply becoming a catch-all for whatever an individual chooses to employ it ‘as’ during a written or spoken communication.

We paradoxically are limiting our vocabulary in some ways by using one word to express many concepts (love, hate, bigotry, right, wrong, etc) whilst ‘bloviating’ and making up words especially with regard to jargon.

No wonder we complain people ‘don’t hear’ or ‘aren’t listening’; John ‘hears’ something and filters it through what he determines the words mean to HIM while Jane ‘says’ something and filters it through what SHE determines the words mean to her.

 

[pnewton]

The entire world has suffered from ambiguity with regard to the written word and, in the last couple of decades, from a ‘Twitterspeak’ communication and a shift from.a word expressing a clear definition or definitions to a word simply becoming a catch-all for whatever an individual chooses to employ it ‘as’ during a written or spoken communication.

One thing that makes this encyclical useful is that it departs from soundbite communication. Hey, I would not want everything to be like this, but at times it is good to have a fuller explanation of “why” as well as historical context to what is being said. It cuts down on ambiguity, at least for those that want to spend the time to gain clarity.

 

[Donkey]

Fratelli Tutti points to the fact that Christendom is approaching massive persecution.
Very simply,
Jesus I Trust In You.

 

[Motherwit]

stpurl:

The entire world has suffered from ambiguity with regard to the written word and, in the last couple of decades, from a ‘Twitterspeak’ communication and a shift from.a word expressing a clear definition or definitions to a word simply becoming a catch-all for whatever an individual chooses to employ it ‘as’ during a written or spoken communication.

One thing that makes this encyclical useful is that it departs from soundbite communication. Hey, I would not want everything to be like this, but at times it is good to have a fuller explanation of “why” as well as historical context to what is being said. It cuts down on ambiguity, at least for those that want to spend the time to gain clarity.

I agree completely. Pope John Paul II was always accused of being too hard to grasp so much so that Theology of the Body needed a whole class of ‘interpreters’ to get it to the world.

Pope Francis, and I think his style is heavily influenced by his Ignatian formation, is about speaking straight to the soul and bypassing the nitpicky mind. His soft tone, his repetition an re-emphasizing over and over, are actually used in therapies. Too many people today believe they are theologically smarter than the whole Magisterium with their theologians, historians, Academies of experts. St Ignatius coined the principle of ‘thinking with the Church’ and letting the Church guide you through the storms of godless secularity. That is a really great gift that this Pope has given us.