Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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_Abyssinia said:
Pope’s comments on Trump not a personal attack: papal spokesman

mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSMTZSAPEC2JSUF1DQ
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gilliam said:
Donald Trump is downplaying his brief tiff with the pontiff, complaining in an interview Friday morning that the media had skewed the interpretation of Pope Francis’ response to a question about him.
…

During a taped telephone interview aired during ABC’s “Good Morning America,” co-anchor George Stephanopoulos asked Trump if he thought his statement slamming the pope’s remark would hurt him going forward, including in Saturday’s South Carolina primary.

“Well you never know, George. I mean, with me it’s illegal immigration," Trump said, referring to the first issue he brought up more than eight months ago when he launched his campaign: “We want to have the wall, we have to have the wall, we have to stop the drugs from pouring in and the illegal immigrants from just absolutely pouring into our country.”

Repeating his usual rhetoric about building a wall to keep out drugs and undocumented immigrants, Trump commented that Francis’ remarks were “a little bit lighter … than the press portrayed after I read a transcript.” The pope’s precise words do not specifically mention Trump but rather speak in general religious terms about anyone who constructs a wall instead of building bridges.
During Thursday night’s town hall event on CNN, the businessman had already begun dialing back his rhetoric, calling Francis “a wonderful guy.”

Read more: politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-pope-gma-interview-219482#ixzz40dK6Tyzg
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I’d be curious to know if someone following this controversy became satisfied by the Vatican spokesperson’s clarification or Trump’s clarification.
 
irishpatrick said:
I agree, and the Pope cannot determine who is in Heaven, or who is or will go to hell, other than when Sainthood is pronounced. Yet, the Pope most certainly can judge the state of one’s soul based on information about that person’s sins and life.

In fact, the Pope did so yesterday. He stated it clearly–if a person thinks only of building walls, but he does not think of building bridges, that person is not behaving as a Christian. That is a judgment.
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Bolded is key. 🙂

I do generally agree with your pov, though. 🙂
 
Theo520 said:
Trump is running for election in the USA, not Mexico. It would be suicide for any US candidate to run on a platform of cleaning up corruption in another country.
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I did not say that. Has our education system led to this? Is this whole thread one huge example of how Americans have lost the ability to read for comprehension? Maybe we deserve Trump.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone wants to move to the U.S. Most people want to make a better life right where they are at. It is a strawman to suppose that all those who want a better life will try to move here.
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We only need a very small % to enter illegally for it to become a big problem. Focusing on ‘all’ is a red herring.
An interesting comparison below

America Accepts Six Times More Migrants than All Latin American Countries Combined
 
Round_Hill said:
You do know that the United States is 19 TRILLION in debt… Our infrastructure is also crumbling.
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See here to understand the real financial position of the United States. Note especially the graph of liabilities over the years. Much of the debt you include in that 19 trillion is actually debt we owe ourselves. It is not all held by foreign investors as one might be lead to believe from your posting. The top conclusion is that the US had a $123.8 trillion net worth (assets minus debts) as of the first quarter of 2014. So the 19 trillion is not so dire as some make it out to be.
 
Round_Hill said:
This isn’t the first time this has happened. I’m 99% sure someone has approached the Pope about the issues/confusion arising from his “Papal Plane Press Conferences.” He insists on still doing them, and that’s his style. However, when you chime into a political topic that is at the forefront of an American election, you HAVE to know you are going to be spun by both sides to advance their position. It is 100% expected nowadays with today’s media and politics, which is why he should have treaded more carefully. If he really wanted to chime in, release a long researched document, rather than a short answer to a random reporter.
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The style of other modern popes is to carefully measure their words.
One has to assume after a while that this pope knows exactly what he is doing to.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Ah, but it is a great deal of luck, or if you like, grace from God. We have nothing by our own merit. Every good gift, every resource, is an undeserved gift from God, to be used as He wills. We are only stewards, not owners.
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How does that address my post?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The only difference between legal and illegal immigration is the passing of a law. That does not change the moral character or economic prospects of someone wanting to immigrate.
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To use an analogy, it sounds like you are saying ‘consent’ is irrelevant.
 
pnewton said:
I did not say that. Has our education system led to this? Is this whole thread one huge example of how Americans have lost the ability to read for comprehension? Maybe we deserve Trump.
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To answer your questions: Yes. Yes. I hope not.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The only difference between legal and illegal immigration is the passing of a law. That does not change the moral character or economic prospects of someone wanting to immigrate.
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Yet, the Catholic Church does respect a country’s rights to defend itself and enforce its borders. In this, let’s not confuse this with Church teaching.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
See here to understand the real financial position of the United States. Note especially the graph of liabilities over the years. Much of the debt you include in that 19 trillion is actually debt we owe ourselves. It is not all held by foreign investors as one might be lead to believe from your posting. The top conclusion is that the US had a $123.8 trillion net worth (assets minus debts) as of the first quarter of 2014. So the 19 trillion is not so dire as some make it out to be.
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The idea that 19 TRILLION in debt is “not so dire” is delusional. Also, that 123.8 trillion net worth you gave includes private wealth, if i’m understanding correct, so it’s completely meaningless to this discussion. This is not a socialist country.
 
Darryl1958 said:
How does that address my post?
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It addresses it quite directly. You said:
What Americans can do is to make it clear to the world that it is not magic or luck or even imperialistic exploitation that has made America such a magnet for economic immigrants.
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You said it was not luck that made America great, and I said it was luck and grace. You said it was due to our American system of government, and if anyone else wants the benefits of such a system, they should get one too. I claim that the American system of government was a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition. If we did not also have the very good fortune to find ourselves in possession of a large, well isolated, resource-rich land, strategically placed, and inhabited by technologically inferior native tribes that we could dominate, our system of government alone would not have lead to the prosperity that others envy. It is disingenuous to tell other nations that they could be just as rich as us if they could only go out and get a system of government like ours. How much more directly relevant to your posting can I get?
 
Good_Tidings said:
To answer your questions: Yes. Yes. I hope not.
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Whether or not the American education system sucks, and whether or not people on message boards lack reading skills, Theo’s response to Newton was not so far off the mark.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
See here to understand the real financial position of the United States. Note especially the graph of liabilities over the years. Much of the debt you include in that 19 trillion is actually debt we owe ourselves. It is not all held by foreign investors as one might be lead to believe from your posting. The top conclusion is that the US had a $123.8 trillion net worth (assets minus debts) as of the first quarter of 2014. So the 19 trillion is not so dire as some make it out to be.
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That has no practical meaning. Sure, if ever square inch of the U.S. was sold (assuming it could be sold at current market values, which it wouldn’t be) every cow, every tricycle, every lathe, every set of tires. Even then, and assuming prices didn’t crash, which they would, that would amount to about $1800 per person to distribute to each person
worldwide.

And do the people we think of as “ourselves” not expect to be paid both principal and interest at some point? Creditors, no matter who they are, expect to be paid.

Debt is not a threat if you can pay it as a practical matter. If you can’t, then it is a threat. The very fact that it keeps mounting up tells us it really can’t be paid as a practical matter, and especially with a 30 trillion additional shortfall for potential transfer payments as well.
 
I would love it if the world could be turned into a giant monastery where everyone is welcome to come and go, where we pray and work and read and fellowship, work in the gardens, copying manuscript, not own anything and not owe anything. But I don’t think that’s God’s design.
 
Ridgerunner said:
That has no practical meaning. Sure, if ever square inch of the U.S. was sold (assuming it could be sold at current market values, which it wouldn’t be) every cow, every tricycle, every lathe, every set of tires. Even then, and assuming prices didn’t crash, which they would, that would amount to about $1800 per person to distribute to each person
worldwide.
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Considering that the GDP of the US is about 17 trillion, that comes to about $53,000 per person. So if everyone would just take 12 days and work to pay off the debt, the foreign part of the debt would be paid.
And do the people we think of as “ourselves” not expect to be paid both principal and interest at some point? Creditors, no matter who they are, expect to be paid.
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Those debts do not affect how wealthy the nation is as a whole. They only affect who has the wealth.
 
Ridgerunner said:
They did themselves, alone.
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If immigrants coming to the US today pose a financial risk to those already here, then I don’t understand why your ancestors when they came here did not also pose a financial risk. But wait, I know the answer to that. When your ancestors came here, there was no social safety net, and now there is. Assuming that is your reasoning, you should be just as adamant that newborn American citizens should also not be provided any social safety net, since it would be a financial risk born by others.
 
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