Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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Mary_Gail_36 said:
St Peter’s Square is part of the Vatican. One can walk right in from Rome.
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You can walk around the Piazza and through the Colonnades but a large part of the Vatican is closed; one can only see the gardens on a tour.
 
irishpatrick said:
A point few ever raise.

Where is our migrant problem with all the other nations in the world? Across which border are the Europeans, Russians, Ausies, Kiwis, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, etc., pouring over by the thousands?

Oh, wait, they are not pouring over our border–that distinction belongs to Mexico.

I do recall, in history, that many Europeans poured into our country in the late 1800s and early 1900s–many of those were poor and had nothing when they came here. We made no effort to build a wall in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to stop them–we welcomed them with open arms. Does anyone doubt that those people would have still come here even if we did not welcome them? They were fleeing horrible conditions. Forward to today: we no longer receive Europeans as we did back then. Why is that? It is because the European nations now do a good job of caring for their own.

Like it or not, Mexico is our neighbor–building a wall will certainly slow down the crossings, and the USA has every right to protect the nation. However, this will not end until Mexico starts caring for its own in a way that stops its citizens from needing to come here, just as European nations recovered and took care of their own.

The solution is not a wall. The solution is to look at Mexico as our neighbor and to start doing everything we can to help them care for themselves, without need to flee to the USA. Only then, will this problem conclude, and that is the only way it will conclude well.

We spend trillions on wars and nation building, and we lose thousands of lives in doing the same–but we never do the same for our own neighbor.

Do you not understand? Mexicans should NOT want to flee here–they should have to be faced with no choice but to flee here to help care for their families. That must be fixed, and until it is, this problem will not go away no matter how many walls we build.

The Pope knows all this–he knows walls only lock people in and out, they do not solve any real problems. I believe he wants the most powerful and most blessed nation in the world to work hard to fix this the right way. We must help lift Mexico up so its people no longer need to come here–barring that, this will not end.

I have heard many people say they don’t like to when the Mexican act as if they don’t want to be American–well, hint: they don’t. They want to live in Mexico, but they cannot have a life there. They appreciate being able to find what they need here–but they long for their own land. That is not terribly hard to understand.

Put yourself on the other side of that wall–would you find a way to help your family, or would you just give up and die?

Put yourself on the wrong side of the Berlin wall and your spouse and kids managed to get to the other side where life is so much better–would you not do almost anything to join them?

Think of how proud so many people were of Ronald Reagan when he said, “Tear down this wall!” Yet, now, we find ourselves fighting to be able to put up our own wall. Sure, I know the circumstances are different, but there are many similarities.

There are better and more humane ways to treat people. That is what the Pope is trying to get us to realize.
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Hi I just wanted to touch on something. Not all undocumented are coming from across the border . Many undocumented come here as tourists. There are about 70,000 undocumented Irish immigrants in NYC and Boston together. A wall really won’t stop those immigrants.
 
Some Catholics just can’t resist showing disrespect to the Vicar of Christ because they like to put their own biased political spin on much of what he says…news flash… for those who can’t seem to get over the fact there is a wall around much…but not all of Vatican city…it was built around the year 840 to keep out invading armies …not to keep out the illegal poor looking for a better life for their families…so get over criticizing Pope Francis as if he is being hypocritical because of the Vatican wall.
 
Peebo said:
The Pope does not comment on the Catholics ,who vote for people ,that say they believe in killing babies with abortions. These politicians are not told that they cannot be a Christian and support the killing of innocent babies. Would the Pope be as quick to stand up for those children that are aborted ,as he is to stand up for ,the people that break the laws of our country. Groups are allowed , within the church , to be for abortion, and many other causes that are not in line with Catholic ,biblically teachings ,yet no public rebuke from the Pope ,that I have heard. . Why was the Pope so quick to condemn the idear ,of a fence to help protect our country . He speaks Mercy to the homosexual ,those remarried out of the church etc. . He speaks ,No ,mercy for Americans who want a fence on the U S borders. Not to mention the Vatican is fence in. He want His state well protected. That is all we Americans want…

Well…apart from you…how many people agree with that anti catholic rhetoric…insinuating this Pope is slow to speak against abortion. to practically accuse the Pope of being uncaring about abortion…something which is against Catholic doctrine…that is called heresy…I’m surprised the moderators have allowed such garbage here
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That’s not anti-Catholic at all in my view.
 
Peebo said:
Some Catholics just can’t resist showing disrespect to the Vicar of Christ because they like to put their own biased political spin on much of what he says…news flash… for those who can’t seem to get over the fact there is a wall around much…but not all of Vatican city…it was built around the year 840 to keep out invading armies …not to keep out the illegal poor looking for a better life for their families…so get over criticizing Pope Francis as if he is being hypocritical because of the Vatican wall.
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We shouldn’t have drugs coming through, we should not aid organized crime through a porous border.

If we want to help the poor, let’s move in those who are affected by wars, who are starving in Africa and Asia, they don’t even get a chance to see this border or wall. Who is helping them? Jesus Christ said to help the least of our brothers. Should we really turn our backs on our fellow men who are the most destitute? They are not always the ones coming through the border.

And as posted at least 2 times, most of the people coming across the border were not even from Mexico. All kinds of people come through and are vulnerable to those who exploit them.
 
irishpatrick said:
A point few ever raise.

Where is our migrant problem with all the other nations in the world? Across which border are the Europeans, Russians, Ausies, Kiwis, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, etc., pouring over by the thousands?

Oh, wait, they are not pouring over our border–that distinction belongs to Mexico.

I do recall, in history, that many Europeans poured into our country in the late 1800s and early 1900s–many of those were poor and had nothing when they came here. We made no effort to build a wall in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to stop them–we welcomed them with open arms. Does anyone doubt that those people would have still come here even if we did not welcome them? They were fleeing horrible conditions. Forward to today: we no longer receive Europeans as we did back then. Why is that? It is because the European nations now do a good job of caring for their own.

Like it or not, Mexico is our neighbor–building a wall will certainly slow down the crossings, and the USA has every right to protect the nation. However, this will not end until Mexico starts caring for its own in a way that stops its citizens from needing to come here, just as European nations recovered and took care of their own.

The solution is not a wall. The solution is to look at Mexico as our neighbor and to start doing everything we can to help them care for themselves, without need to flee to the USA. Only then, will this problem conclude, and that is the only way it will conclude well.

We spend trillions on wars and nation building, and we lose thousands of lives in doing the same–but we never do the same for our own neighbor.

Do you not understand? Mexicans should NOT want to flee here–they should have to be faced with no choice but to flee here to help care for their families. That must be fixed, and until it is, this problem will not go away no matter how many walls we build.

The Pope knows all this–he knows walls only lock people in and out, they do not solve any real problems. I believe he wants the most powerful and most blessed nation in the world to work hard to fix this the right way. We must help lift Mexico up so its people no longer need to come here–barring that, this will not end.

I have heard many people say they don’t like to when the Mexican act as if they don’t want to be American–well, hint: they don’t. They want to live in Mexico, but they cannot have a life there. They appreciate being able to find what they need here–but they long for their own land. That is not terribly hard to understand.

Put yourself on the other side of that wall–would you find a way to help your family, or would you just give up and die?

Put yourself on the wrong side of the Berlin wall and your spouse and kids managed to get to the other side where life is so much better–would you not do almost anything to join them?

Think of how proud so many people were of Ronald Reagan when he said, “Tear down this wall!” Yet, now, we find ourselves fighting to be able to put up our own wall. Sure, I know the circumstances are different, but there are many similarities.

There are better and more humane ways to treat people. That is what the Pope is trying to get us to realize.
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An ocean is a pretty big obstacle. There was Ellis Island and other processing sites. People who were sick etc, would not be allowed to come in.

Also not at all the case that immigrants were welcomed with open arms. Immigrants faced much discrimination and resentment. (For the same reasons immigrants face resentment here).

It is also not just Mexico . You have a lot of immigrants from Central America. In fact reports state immigration from Mexico is down its from Central America that is up.

Once could point out that there’s more than a little hypocrisy on the part of the Mexican government.

They are cruel to their illegal immigrants and are not nearly as generous to people immigrating here. It’s a felony in Mexico to Mexico illegal. So it’s more than a little hypocritical for Mexico to insist on a secure border to their South and a porous border to their north. To say they don’t want to lose jobs to Hondorans, Guatamalians but no concern for the American workers. More than a bit. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to be like Mexico when it comes to immigration. We are better than that. But this needs to be underscored.

Yes we need to do things to help those people still. But I am not sure how much we can do. This isn’t just a throw money at the situation. You have corruption in those countries too and while our government has medaled and caused all kinds of problem. Some of the internal stuff we cannot fix.

And the majority of undocumented here are not Mexican.

You also have drug trafficking too. And human trafficking. We need to have control our borders while having a process that is easy to use for immigrants.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
Hi I just wanted to touch on something. Not all undocumented are coming from across the border . Many undocumented come here as tourists. There are about 70,000 undocumented Irish immigrants in NYC and Boston together. A wall really won’t stop those immigrants.
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The plan isn’t to just build a wall.

Starting to enforce visa and employment laws is also part of the plan, including use of e-verify and fining employers breaking the law. There will also be additional ICE agents.

I expect many illegal Irish immigrants will then opt to self-deport.
 
Thorolfr said:
I actually agree with what the Pope said, but the press is having a field day. Greg Sargent, one of the columnists at the Washington Post, has written a piece with the title, “Loser Pope takes on Donald Trump, suffers massive humiliation, slinks off to Vatican.”

washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/02/18/loser-pope-takes-on-donald-trump-suffers-massive-humiliation-slinks-off-to-vatican/?postshare=7331455896250378&tid=ss_fb-bottom
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That’s some title! Talk about media bias.
 
Path_Finder said:
That’s not anti-Catholic at all in my view.
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The fact is that some conservative Catholics here in the US have their collective noses out of joint by some of the comments that Pope Francis has made because they see him as too “liberal” in his comments on certain teachings of the Catholic Church and also because they perceive him as not “conservative” enough for their political views…and I stand by my comment that to imply by innuendo that Pope Francis is somehow soft on abortion or doesn’t stand up for those aborted babies when he has condemned abortion as horrific…when he has in no way intimated at any change in church teaching on abortion…then yes…to insinuate otherwise is to accuse the Vicar of Christ of heresy…if that isn’t anti Catholic in the extreme then what is.
 
Path_Finder said:
We shouldn’t have drugs coming through, we should not aid organized crime through a porous border.

If we want to help the poor, let’s move in those who are affected by wars, who are starving in Africa and Asia, they don’t even get a chance to see this border or wall. Who is helping them? Jesus Christ said to help the least of our brothers. Should we really turn our backs on our fellow men who are the most destitute? They are not always the ones coming through the border.

And as posted at least 2 times, most of the people coming across the border were not even from Mexico. All kinds of people come through and are vulnerable to those who exploit them.
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And those are good points…but it doesn’t help when Catholics make sarcastic remarks about Pope Francis having walls around the Vatican…which has nothing to do with a border wall between the US and Mexico
 
I live in a country that’s busily tearing down a pontiff using the caricatured arguments of a big orange clown that may one day be its president as the basis for a parable about working for the common good.

I feel like I went to sleep one day and woke up in some strange dimension where up is down and cats and dogs like each other and there are episodes of two and a half men that aren’t mediocre derivative drivel.
 
Path_Finder said:
We shouldn’t have drugs coming through, we should not aid organized crime through a porous border.

If we want to help the poor, let’s move in those who are affected by wars, who are starving in Africa and Asia, they don’t even get a chance to see this border or wall. Who is helping them? Jesus Christ said to help the least of our brothers. Should we really turn our backs on our fellow men who are the most destitute? They are not always the ones coming through the border.

And as posted at least 2 times, most of the people coming across the border were not even from Mexico. All kinds of people come through and are vulnerable to those who exploit them.
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Hmm, did the Pope mention these things? (The answer is yes, at Juarez)
 
TheOrigen said:
I live in a country that’s busily tearing down a pontiff using the caricatured arguments of a big orange clown that may one day be its president as the basis for a parable about working for the common good.

I feel like I went to sleep one day and woke up in some strange dimension where up is down and cats and dogs like each other and there are episodes of two and a half men that aren’t mediocre derivative drivel.
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It does feel a bit like an extended episode of Twliight Zone.
 
meltzerboy said:
That’s some title! Talk about media bias.
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That title isn’t as much fun as the content of this opinion piece in the Chicago Tribune: chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/huppke/ct-pope-trump-huppke-20160218-story.html
You can hear the impending sound bites from Trump: “This pope, I mean, he’s very low energy. What has he done, he doesn’t do anything. He washes some feet. Who does that? It’s disgusting. We used to have popes who won. They didn’t wash feet, they did huge things, with God and whatnot, great things. This pope is weak and he’s a loser. Dopey pope.”
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There’s no way this is actually how a presidential campaign is unfolding. This has to be scripted.
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Trump vs. the Vicar of Christ.
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Whoever’s writing this plot, please come out now.
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You win.
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Mary_Gail_36 said:
I think it’s meant to be satirical.
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And yes, both pieces are satirical. Though as with most satire, there’s some truth in there somewhere…
 
TheOrigen said:
I live in a country that’s busily tearing down a pontiff using the caricatured arguments of a big orange clown that may one day be its president as the basis for a parable about working for the common good.

I feel like I went to sleep one day and woke up in some strange dimension where up is down and cats and dogs like each other and there are episodes of two and a half men that aren’t mediocre derivative drivel.
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I will say this.
My opinion in regard to many Catholics has been forever changed.
This thread has been an eye-opener, and rather sad.
 
Son_of_Niall said:
I will say this.
My opinion in regard to many Catholics has been forever changed.
This thread has been an eye-opener, and rather sad.
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Yes, but take heart, we are supposed to happy people no matter what comes out
Our way
 
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