Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

[ucfengr]

It’s amazing to hear the Pope say someone is not a Christian while our own pro-abortion politicians can openly and publicly receive the Eucharist. However this is received in the catholic world, Americans will not appreciate what the Pope said. This Will probably help trump.

Pretty much this. Apparently, the new non-negotiables of Catholic faith are “global warming” and “open borders”. Abortion, same sex marriage; who are we to judge.

 

[OneSheep]

cnn.com/2016/02/18/politics/pope-francis-trump-christian-wall/index.html

They Pope renounces the idea of a wall at the US/Mexico border.

From Pope Francis:

“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the gospel,”

Here’s a news story that took off in a hurry!
I haven’t read all the posts yet, but I just want to point out that I doubt Pope Francis’ intent was to single out Trump as a non-Christian. If you look at some of the homilies, addresses, speeches, etc. that Pope Francis gives, he very frequently calls out specific behavior as being “not Christian.” I did a site search of news.va for “pope francis” and “not Christian” and came upon a number of statements from the pope:

• Fearful and joyless communities are not Christian
• We do not advertise Jesus Christ, to have more 'members’ in our ‘spiritual society’, no? This is not necessary. There’s no need; it’s not Christian.
• Our Christian identity is belonging to a people: the Church . Without this, we are not Christians.
• Saint Paul exhorts us not to judge and not to despise our brothers, because this leads to excluding them from “our little group,” to being selective, and this is not Christian.
• A Christian without joy is not Christian
• A disciple of Jesus who does not serve others is not Christian
• Without the Cross, the Christian style is not Christian

And that’s just the first page of hits.

I don’t think Francis’ point is to excommunicate people but rather to get people to reflect on how better to act like Christians.

I want to thank you, ringil, for starting this thread and you, Joe, for putting the statement into a larger context. After hearing the news on media this morning, I was seriously having some negative reactions to what they quoted from the Pope . A very important part is “and not building bridges” which the media was not reporting. If there is not action to build bridges, it is not Christian action. I am not in favor of a wall, but building the wall itself is not an un-Christian action. We Christians of course have the right to protect ourselves against a threat (though I disagree that there is a threat).

And actually, I am Trump’s side too, concerning his response to Pope Francis, even though he misunderstood the Holy Father’s statement. Donald Trump is right: it is hardly Christian to judge his Christianity. None of us is perfect. Note: I am not promoting Donald Trump.

What an interesting morning, and thank God for the CAF for helping us sort this out!

 

[pnewton]

Trump wants legal immigrants to come in. He wants to build a safe zone in Syria. Those don’t count as bridges?

The Pope said “if” and mentioned he had the “benefit of a doubt”.

 

[Path_Finder]

Why single out Limbaugh? There are other influential radio personalities like Laura Ingraham and Pat Buchanan, both of whom are American Catholics, who have said similar things about the Pope’s political statements.

According to Buchanan, when Pope Francis “speaks on issues like climate change and political issues and the rest of it, he speaks as an Argentine Jesuit socialist.” I don’t think he said this to be disparaging, but to point out the real differences in wordview between American Catholics and those in say Latin America.

universalfreepress.com/2015/pat-buchanan-pope-an-argentine-jesuit-socialist-with-no-infallibility-on-climate-change/

Exactly, brilliant, it’s also brilliant what Falwell Jr. said in regards to JFK where many voters were suspicious of the Pope’s Catholicism, one can see where this is going. It seemed the specter of Protestantism was brought up here.

What if in 1960, what if Pope John XXIII had made a remark about Richard Nixon that then, the media took and printed “Pope says Nixon is not a Christian”. That could have likely suffered quite a blowback at that.

 

[Cider]

:tsktsk:

lifenews.com/2013/05/07/pope-francis-pro-abortion-politicians-ineligible-for-communion/

And yet they clearly do still receive.

This is one thing ( of many) that I like about the Orthodox Church, they have no qualms about denying someone communion who has created public scandal and has not publicly repented. Heck, they don’t even give communion to people that they don’t know.

 

[queenofheartscv]

The Pope said “if” and mentioned he had the “benefit of a doubt”.

The whole thing just doesn’t sit right. The question was probably put to the Pope as a trap, and unfortunately he fell for it.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Whatever you think about the US border will, some people are pointing out well there is a wall around the Vatican. This ---->

@FoxNews Comparing a 500yr+ wall built to protect against armies to a wall built to prevent immigration is intellectually dishonest

twitter.com/italianaware/status/700429353180643329

It’s illegal immigrants the US border wall is supposed to stop as well as narcotics etc. But how is it fair to compare the US border wall to the wall around the Vatican?

 

[Cider]

Whatever you think about the US border will, some people are pointing out well there is a wall around the Vatican. This ---->

twitter.com/italianaware/status/700429353180643329

It’s illegal immigrants the US border wall is supposed to stop as well as narcotics etc. But how is it fair to compare the US border wall to the wall around the Vatican?

I think we should all show up at Vatican State seeking asylum and see what happens.

 

[dixieagle]

Is the wall around the Vatican used to keep pilgrims out? It appears to me that the Pope is not talking about the mere existence of walls but about the “othering” of people beyond the wall.

Indeed! I don’t think there’s much comparison between Mexicans seeking to better themselves and marauding Saracen pirates (the reason the Vatican walls were erected in the 9th century.)

We can argue all we want about particulars; our immigration system is, indeed, broken, aided in no small part by self-serving politicians who turned their heads when local farms and factories needed workers. (My daughter has worked with numerous immigrants and could tell you things that would make you look at this issue in a whole new light.)

However, I’m with the Pope on this and have a very hard time seeing how anyone who is truly following Christ could think that erecting a wall is anything but nuts. What a ridiculous waste of billions of dollars.

 

[Path_Finder]

:tsktsk:

lifenews.com/2013/05/07/pope-francis-pro-abortion-politicians-ineligible-for-communion/

Yes, but on the other hand, we are not dealing with a situation where he seems to mention a politician fairly specifically and why people are making political hay out of this.

An NFL lineman, Matt Birk, refused to go to the White House because of President Obama’s stance on life, what if the Holy Father did likewise?

I think it is like Michael Medved said, perhaps such types of questions should not be answered.

 

[irishpatrick]

I will ask this again. What person is only thinking about building walls and not bridges? Trump wants people to come in legally. Does that not count as a bridge?

So, if Trump plans to try to build a bridge to a better relationship between us and Mexico, then the Pope’s words do not apply to him. If he plans to build a wall and tell the immigrants to stuff it, then the Pope’s word do apply to him.

 

[Micosil]

And yet they clearly do still receive.

Then St. Paul’s admonishment applies to them.

 

[GaryTaylor]

It seemed the specter of Protestantism was brought up here.

Absolutely, lets see things for how they are, not how we would like them to be. The Pope is “absolutely” right. Perhaps he didn’t speak this critical in relation to immigrants and Europe, but perhaps thats next time. This time he spoke to you. Who will speak for these Catholics coming from Mexico?

I hear silence and its unacceptable.

 

[mommy_k]

If trump uses such agressive language against the Holy Father–what is this man capable of saying to a dangerous world leader?

Eek.

All politicans are liars. Each make promises they cannot keep. The way to vote this election is for the one who stands up for Catholic teachings and who does not verbally attack everyone they meet including the Pope.

For entertainment purposes, this election gets an A+. For serious candidate choices it is an F-.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I am so proud of our Pope.

 

[queenofheartscv]

So, if Trump plans to try to build a bridge to a better relationship between us and Mexico, then the Pope’s words do not apply to him. If he plans to build a wall and tell the immigrants to stuff it, then the Pope’s word do apply to him.

I think the Pope knows very well what trump wants to do and what the majority of Americans want. We don’t want illegals. We also have a heart. We have had more immigrants than all other countries out together. We welcome legal immigrants. Perhaps that’s not good enough for the POpe.

 

[Good_Tidings]

Indeed! I don’t think there’s much comparison between Mexicans seeking to better themselves and marauding Saracen pirates (the reason the Vatican walls were erected in the 9th century.)

We can argue all we want about particulars; our immigration system is, indeed, broken, aided in no small part by self-serving politicians who turned their heads when local farms and factories needed workers. (My daughter has worked with numerous immigrants and could tell you things that would make you look at this issue in a whole new light.)

However, I’m with the Pope on this and have a very hard time seeing how anyone who is truly following Christ could think that erecting a wall is anything but nuts. What a ridiculous waste of billions of dollars.

No kidding. Like anyone couldn’t go over or under it. Perhaps making it illegal for employers to exploit these poor souls might be better if it were actually enforced.

 

[irishpatrick]

I think Catholics need to take a breath and realize they are blasting the Vicar of Christ about what constitutes being Christian in our acts. You know, the person who has the keys, and sits in the Chair of Peter and is Pastor over the entire Universal Church on earth.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

If trump uses such agressive language against the Holy Father–what is this man capable of saying to a dangerous world leader?

Eek.

All politicans are liars. Each make promises they cannot keep. The way to vote this election is for the one who stands up for Catholic teachings and who does not verbally attack everyone they meet including the Pope.

For entertainment purposes, this election gets an A+. For serious candidate choices it is an F-.

Trump said " If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS…" Sounds like a veiled threat to me. Especially if one is aware of the origins of ISIS…

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I think Catholics need to take a breath and realize they are blasting the Vicar of Christ about what constitutes being Christian in our acts. You know, the person who has the keys, and sits in the Chair of Peter and is Pastor over the entire Universal Church on earth.

It certainly separates doesn’t it?