Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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irishpatrick said:
If we build a wall, without caring for those on the southern side, we are not acting in a Christian manner.
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If we don’t build a wall, we don’t care about the people here with family members who have suffered in the hands of illegals. We won’t be acting in a christian manner.
 
Cider said:
That’s a waste of time, she’s basically a female version of Trump.
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I am also disappointed in Laura Ingraham - she has a little more class but is in the Trump tank 100% (isn’t she Catholic too?). Nuke the GOP to save it. I honestly don’t think some Trump supporters care as much about winning the general as they do taking it to the establishment and humiliating the GOP by winning the nomination.
 
irishpatrick said:
If we build a wall, without caring for those on the southern side, we are not acting in a Christian manner.
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And this is also like saying, if today you’ve only done what your job requires and not have done something extra nice for other people, you are not acting in a Christian manner.
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
Yeah, it is a slightly different tone than the one taken about homosexuals who may be seeking Christ. Who are we to judge? Yet, in this question, it presumes impure motives and deems that worthy of castigation. Not sure why both aren’t given the benefit of seeking Christ.
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Isn’t that the question.

If the Pope calls out Clinton and Sanders for their pro-abortion positions as being un-Christian (Sanders is Jewish actually) it might make sense.

But he does not and that void can’t be ignored. And won’t be.

Trump is everything folks say he is but this will IMO be a huge PR nightmare for the Vatican more so than for Trump.
 
I don’t even think Pope Francis is saying that a “wall” itself is evil or sinful or unChristian, nor is a barrier for safety.

He’s commenting on the idea of singling people out, ‘othering’ them (in terms of a group of people), and removing their dignity as individuals.

He’s saying that the idea that “we’re going to build a wall to keep all them Mexicans out of here” is wrong, and is especially wrong if we’re going to kick them out and wash our hands of the whole thing, instead of working with the rest of the world to help us all realize our dignity.

It isn’t a message about legal systems, protection, drugs, or anything else. It doesn’t even really have anything to do with Trump himself. It’s about remembering that we are currently talking about human beings, who have the image of God in them, and doing our best to craft a policy that is the best for all involved. Reasonable Catholics can disagree on what is the best policy for the common good of our nation, the world, and the people in this country who are undocumented. But it is very, very wrong to deny the image of God within them and treat them without respect with the intent on keeping this specific group of people out just for the sake of keeping them out.
 
irishpatrick said:
I think Catholics need to take a breath and realize they are blasting the Vicar of Christ about what constitutes being Christian in our acts. You know, the person who has the keys, and sits in the Chair of Peter and is Pastor over the entire Universal Church on earth.
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I have to say that Irishpatrick is so right, here.👍👍

PS: I think Pope Francis is terrific.👍👍
And–I know that a goodly numbers of the posts made here by Catholics have been the :sad_yes:cause of scandal. I know that, because** I** am the one:eek: scandalized.
:shrug:Just saying.🤷
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I am also disappointed in Laura Ingraham - she has a little more class but is in the Trump tank 100% (isn’t she Catholic too?). Nuke the GOP to save it. I honestly don’t think some Trump supporters care as much about winning the general as they do taking it to the establishment and humiliating the GOP by winning the nomination.
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Laura is a convert. Read her conversion story.

She is not in the Trump tank. She asks the obvious question - why does the Pope criticize Trump but not any such words about politicians who support abortion like Clinton and Pelosi.

it is an honest question.
 
Path_Finder said:
That is conjecture, people die trying to cross the border, there have been massacres of migrants, including ones from Ecuador, Brazil in Mexico, there are all kinds of illegal activities. I think a secure border would hurt criminals who exploit this situation including drug and other contraband runners and coyotes, people smugglers.

This is what the open border encourages, lawlessness and I don’t think that is Christian.

Respectfully, this is back to the emotional appeal.
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No, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and he saying we must not build walls if we are not also trying to build bridges. I agree with him and feel that is a very sound and moral position to take.
 
Danny33 said:
Laura is a convert. Read her conversion story.

She is not in the Trump tank. She asks the obvious question - why does the Pope criticize Trump but not any such words about politicians who support abortion like Clinton and Pelosi.

it is an honest question.
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The Pope did not call Trump out by name. Fact.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
👍

Hungary (IIRC:o) built a wall. The number of attempted incursions into Hungary went from hundreds to a handful. Over night.
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:amen:

There are various stories on walls in the past few months being of aid. Really, it’s just to dismiss at least the possibility that they are being effective to simply insist they do not work.

Trump also, pretty much has made it clear from the start, he believes in “touch-back amnesty” meaning if you were good here, go back to your country and you will be admitted back.
 
Danny33 said:
Isn’t that the question.

If the Pope calls out Clinton and Sanders for their pro-abortion positions as being un-Christian (Sanders is Jewish actually) it might make sense.

But he does not and that void can’t be ignored. And won’t be.

Trump is everything folks say he is but this will IMO be a huge PR nightmare for the Vatican more so than for Trump.
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Well, the US Bishops are pretty vocal about abortion, gay marriage, Obamacare & contraception, etc. - against the Obama administration. And they have been vocal against deporting immigrants too, for some time now. The Pope just got dragged into this issue by a question posed to him about Trump. He was answering a question, right, not independently making pronouncements about the US presidential race - he refused to go there.
 
irishpatrick said:
No, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and he saying we must not build walls if we are not also trying to build bridges. I agree with him and feel that is a very sound and moral position to take.
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If that’s all he means, nobody disagrees. That’s a nonissue.
 
Danny33 said:
Laura is a convert. Read her conversion story.

She is not in the Trump tank. She asks the obvious question - why does the Pope criticize Trump but not any such words about politicians who support abortion like Clinton and Pelosi.

it is an honest question.
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Because no one asked him about it and he doesn’t live within the insular and mostly crazed world of American politics
 
irishpatrick said:
The Pope did not call Trump out by name. Fact.
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But he did call out (apparently) those who do not want open borders (my paraphrase-NOT the Holy Father’s words). He did not mention abortion. Did he when he was here in the USA?
 
irishpatrick said:
No, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and he saying we must not build walls if we are not also trying to build bridges. I agree with him and feel that is a very sound and moral position to take.
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No what?

Is one honestly saying people do not die crossing the border and organized crime benefits from it?
 
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