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DevotedChild
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Historically we are in a very low low in numbers of religious sisters, and priests, however there has been a recent increase of young women entering into traditional religious communities, more non-active communities. It is just so happens that that is also what I am discerning right now.
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manualman
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The number of women religious is about 10% today of what it was at its peak (late 50’s?).
Catholicism teaches that body and soul are a union. It’s just a logical outcome of that understanding that the motherhood of woman has more than merely a biological meaning. Some these days like to think that men and women’s differences are merely superficial. Catholicism sees the physical as but a manifestation of what lies beneath. I grew up at the tail end of the era when sisters were commonly present in parishes (usually as teachers). You really did see a different style of leadership by the sisters than by the priests. Mother vs. Father is a pretty good description, I’d say.
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McCall1981
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See this is the thing though. What you said bolded here should be true. One would fully expect the things Francis said here would be attacked by critics, and the honeymoon would be over. But judging from the comments by the Sisters that doesn’t seem to be happening. They still say positive things about him. I just don’t get it.Right, honeymoon’s over. Watch the critics reload ammo.
He makes a great point. People wring hands over the shortage of spiritual fathers in this country’s parishes, but not much fuss has been made over the almost complete disappearance of spiritual mothers from parish life. Too bad, they were worth the fuss. We miss you, sisters!
Tell your daughters about what used to be and it can be again.
Why hasn’t the honeymoon ended? Can anyone clue me in?
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DevotedChild
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Exactly. Even though I haven’t bore children I have had this “mothering” nature since I was a kid, mothering anyone who needed mothering at that moment. My high school friends called me the “mother hen” of our social circle.
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tabycat
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It’s called a ‘honeymoon time’. Benedict had a rep for being tough (God’s Rottwiler) on one’s that did not toe the line before he become Pope.This
Yet, somehow the comments from the Sisters are positive. If Benedict had said these exact same things he would have been crucified as being mysogenistic and mean, yet somehow Francis is accepted. I don’t get it. It’s a good thing, but I don’t get it at all, it’s like Francis is given a free pass on everything. Maybe it wont last, but I certainly didn’t think it would last as long as it has already, so who knows.
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DevotedChild
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Here is an English Translation of part of the speech which think is important in understanding what that is being talk about here.
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McCall1981
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robwar
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My intention wasn’t to quote a couple of hippies but highlight that there is a characterization of nuns at least in Catholic schools as being mean old hags. Yes, that may be overplayed but there unfortunately some bottom line experiences to it and that was our experience in a few years ago with a certain “sister” and our daughter who was more interested in her power and position than showing mercy and I am applauding the Pope in what he said. Our experiences was just a few years ago not in the 1960’s. My husband who did go to Catholic Schools does have the typical horror stories of meanness and cruelty and that was the late 60-70’s. If we can’t look at ourselves and say “hey, if we don’t shape up behavior in our religious then maybe we do give material to old hippies to make fun of us and it become deserved”.
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Lormar
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Gricken
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I met a nun once. One of my friends asked if they actually used rulers on studets. Her response was “It’s the 21st century, we use tasers now”
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livingwordunity
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That’s because most people in our culture today operate on emotion and not on logic. So it doesn’t have to make any sense.This
Yet, somehow the comments from the Sisters are positive. If Benedict had said these exact same things he would have been crucified as being mysogenistic and mean, yet somehow Francis is accepted. I don’t get it. It’s a good thing, but I don’t get it at all, it’s like Francis is given a free pass on everything. Maybe it wont last, but I certainly didn’t think it would last as long as it has already, so who knows.
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robwar
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I met a nun once. One of my friends asked if they actually used rulers on studets. Her response was “It’s the 21st century, we use tasers now”
The Cheek of Cheek and Chong that made coined Sister Mary Elephant was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. Sadly, I have no doubt that their skit making fun of mean old nuns was probably was based on a composite of what he experienced going to Catholic Schools. What is sad is that we sometimes are our own worst enemies and give fuel to those that leave the Church and then go and make fun of priests and nuns. I know people that have left the Catholic Church based on the way they were treated by nuns in Catholic Schools. Maybe if Cheek had been shown some genuine Christ like love, he might not have gone off to make a skit mocking nuns and become the dope head that he became. So the Pope is right, nuns need to stop being “spinsters” and start showing motherly Christ like love. They are called to serve others, not be embittered old women that have nothing better to do than bully and taser students under their care. Yes, they have done damage to the Church in driving away people instead of loving and serving those around them. Good for the Pope!
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McCall1981
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I don’t think this is really what the Pope was getting at though. This address seemed to be pretty clearly addressed to LCWR types, not mean old nun types.
The Cheek of Cheek and Chong that made coined Sister Mary Elephant was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. Sadly, I have no doubt that their skit making fun of mean old nuns was probably was based on a composite of what he experienced going to Catholic Schools. What is sad is that we sometimes are our own worst enemies and give fuel to those that leave the Church and then go and make fun of priests and nuns. I know people that have left the Catholic Church based on the way they were treated by nuns in Catholic Schools. Maybe if Cheek had been shown some genuine Christ like love, he might not have gone off to make a skit mocking nuns and become the dope head that he became. So the Pope is right, nuns need to stop being “spinsters” and start showing motherly Christ like love. They are called to serve others, not be embittered old women that have nothing better to do than bully and taser students under their care. Yes, they have done damage to the Church in driving away people instead of loving and serving those around them. Good for the Pope!
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Tampa_Dave
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I attended Catholic schools from the late 1960s through the early 1970s. I thank the nuns of St. Mary’s (Painesville, OH) and Lake Catholic High School (Mentor, OH) for providing me with the discipline and education to succeed in life. I still find nuns in full habit very inspiring.
I’ve heard the conservative orders are growing by leaps and bounds. Thank God.
I’ve heard the conservative orders are growing by leaps and bounds. Thank God.
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robwar
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Why can’t it be both? True to Church Orthodoxy (LCWR types) and then true to the call of love and service (spinster mean types). I think that is how what I read from the original post as well as the actual translation struck me.
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robwar
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Good for you, my husband did have a much different experience during the same time period.
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Lormar
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The number of women religious peaked in 1965 - at least in the United States it did. That is the last year that many of them had large groups in their novitiate.
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McCall1981
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Well, it’s not that it can’t be both, but as I read this address, it looks to me that almost the whole thing is talking about issues that relate to the LCWR conflict, like obedience, doctrine, service, the centrality of the Gospel, etc. Really, the only phrase I see that could relate to “mean old nuns” is the spinster comment, but even that I think is just as likely to refer to LCWR types. Also, with Francis recently approving the LCWR reform, and the recent comments from Cardinal Aviz and the CDF, the context around the address is all about the LCWR.
I mean, I’m sure Francis would agree that no one should be a “mean old nun” type, I just think thats not a very relevant issue for the Church right now (as compared to the LCWR), so it’s not what he was getting at here. Just my opinion
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jwinch2
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zenit.org/en/articles/pope-s-address-to-women-religious-superiors
Here is the full text in case it has not be linked already. He makes several strong points and even concludes in a strong fashion with the “hierarchic Holy Mother Church” statement at the end.
I applaud the Holy Father for the strength of this address.
Here is the full text in case it has not be linked already. He makes several strong points and even concludes in a strong fashion with the “hierarchic Holy Mother Church” statement at the end.
I applaud the Holy Father for the strength of this address.
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