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McCall1981
Guest
Thanks for this!
Yes, this is a strong address, stronger even than I had been hoping for
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Yes, this is a strong address, stronger even than I had been hoping for
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Lormar
Guest
Are you referring to this gem of a paragraph:
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jwinch2
Guest
I thought the whole thing was excellent, but that was certainly one of the things I was referring to.Are you referring to this gem of a paragraph:
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McCall1981
Guest
This is good stuff. That’s why I’m confused as to why the LCWR sisters seemed to react fairly positively. I’d like to think he’s actually getting them to listen, and maybe bringing them back towards orthodoxy, but honestly I don’t think that’s possible at this point. I’m thinking they must be either ignoring reality or making fake positive comments for PR purposes.Are you referring to this gem of a paragraph:
I suppose part of it is the “honeymoon” period like people have said. Maybe part of it is that because of the Pope’s emphasis on social justice, they’ve kind of painted themselves into a corner where they can’t openly criticize him (yet).
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Lormar
Guest
I don’t agree with how they think (are you surprised???
), but I believe that these religious have integrity. They sincerely believe that they are right and that they know best what the Church needs.So, no. I don’t think they are capable of being phonies for PR purposes. And I think they are beyond getting starry-eyed over a pope.
(Unless it was a woman pope! 
)
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edwest2
Guest
I think people need to realize that Catholics are viewed as a subculture by those who are not religious or anti-religious. The false conclusion that we do “harm to ourselves” when a member or members of our group does wrong and brings “deserved” discredit to the rest of the group is like saying all Black/Chinese/Mexican people are bad because I’ve known a few bad ones. It doesn’t make sense.
You’ll never see a headline that reads:
“Atheist robs liquor store, kills owner.” or “Unbeliever involved in bank robbery.”
But you’ll see plenty of “The Catholic Church said this… and they’re wrong, again!” in the secular/pagan media. I read an article in a past issue of the Los Angeles Times that made Pope John Paul II out to be a bad man.
So, if you don’t belong to any group in particular, and do bad things, who are you bringing discredit to? Face it, folks, human beings, religious and NOT, have been doing bad things on a daily basis for thousands of years. That’s not to excuse anybody but we all fail from time to time. That’s why, in more modern times, we have police officers and Popes.
Hope this helps,
Ed
You’ll never see a headline that reads:
“Atheist robs liquor store, kills owner.” or “Unbeliever involved in bank robbery.”
But you’ll see plenty of “The Catholic Church said this… and they’re wrong, again!” in the secular/pagan media. I read an article in a past issue of the Los Angeles Times that made Pope John Paul II out to be a bad man.
So, if you don’t belong to any group in particular, and do bad things, who are you bringing discredit to? Face it, folks, human beings, religious and NOT, have been doing bad things on a daily basis for thousands of years. That’s not to excuse anybody but we all fail from time to time. That’s why, in more modern times, we have police officers and Popes.
Hope this helps,
Ed
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manualman
Guest
And in the larger scheme of things, it’s why we all needed a Savior!
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CarolNoel
Guest
Great thoughts from our Pope.
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JReducation
Guest
The media has already taken his words out of context and failed to quote the rest of his sentence, "Forgive me for speaking this way . . . "
The Holy Father was speaking like a Hispanic, even though he was speaking in Italian. In Hispanic culture, “old maid” and “spinster” are considered to be very informal. When used in a formal setting, they can be offensive. However, he was trying to drive home the point about fruitful chastity, not ridicule the sisters. He used the term and excused himself.
It’s like when you or I say, "For lack of a better term . . … " That’s what he was doing.
If you rely on the media to tell you the truth about the Church you’re never going to get it.
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pnewton
Guest
Truer words were never spoken. I did not know about the cultural influence, but when I saw “old maid” I thought it might be something like that, or perhaps a little bit of wry humor.
I remember when he was elected some pundit said something about him not smiling. I am thinking now that if that is so it may be because his wit is too keen. I am finding him hilarious so far, though I have always tended toward the drier humor.
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DevotedChild
Guest
Thanks for explaining since I think most of us have and would miss that since we not of that culture or know much about it.
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JReducation
Guest
He has a wonderful sense of humor, but it’s a kind of mischievous sense of humor. They say that he can dish it out and take it back too. His is not a one way sense of humor.
I lived in South America as a missionary for many years. I not only learned the Spanish language, but I also learned to understand how they use words. Each country in Latin America is very different. Think of Ireland, Australia, South Africa, India and the USA. What do we all have in common? Answer: former British colonies and the English language.
Beyond that, we each have a different culture. Humor, idioms and word usage are important parts of culture.
The one thing that Americans need to understand about immigrants to other nations is that they are not like us. When an Italian family migrates to the USA, it continues to refer to itself as Italian for several generations. We have a brother in our community who claims to be Italian. When his grandpa’ comes over, it is I who speaks to Grandpa’ in Italian. His grandson, the alleged Italian, can’t even say hello in that language. How we do the whole ethnic thing is very bizarre to people of other cultures.
When an Italian family migrates to a country like Argentina, it ceases to be Italian. It would not be welcome. It must quickly become Argentinian. The first generation born in the country, as is the case of Pope Francis, may speak Italian at home, albeit poorly, but that’s the beginning and the end of his Italian connection. Psychologically they see themselves as Argentinian or Argentine. They don’t see themselves as Italian. Their parents are Italian.
On two occasions Pope Francis has made reference to this and the American media missed it completely, while the Italian and Argentine media caught it and commented on it.
During one of his homilies on shame he used a Spanish term and he said, "In my country we say . . . " Unlike Pope John Paul who referred to Italy and Italian as “our country” and “our language”, a Hispanic pope will never do that. He is Hispanic, not Italian. His parents were Italian. Argentina is his country.
I can’t remember when, but he is planning to celebrate a very solemn mass in honor of the patroness of Argentina.
In his inaugural homily he said, **“My father came from this land.” ** He did not refer to himself as Italian. He spoke about his connection to Italy through his father.
Very often, when he speaks, there are two realities that come through, even though he’s speaking in Italian. He speaks like a Hispanic. It’s almost as if he’s translating as he’s talking. I recognize the manner, because I did the same thing during my first year in South America when speaking Spanish and my first year in Italy when speaking Italian. I would always think in English. After a while you begin to think in the local language.
The manner of speaking, the order of the words, the idiomatic expressions tell you that this is not a native speaker of Italian. Unlike Pope Benedict who spoke with a German accent, but his use of words, expressions, and colloquialisms reflected someone who was very comfortable in the Italian language and culture. He had also been in Italy over 25 years.
The PC Police won’t give anyone a pass. It’s going to take something small like this and inflate it rather than acknowledge that this is a man who is speaking in a foreign language.
To make matters more complicated, he was speaking to an audience of 800 people from all over the world. The sisters in the audience are not all from Argentina. This explains why he said, “Forgive me for speaking this way.” He is sensitive to the fact that the sisters come from different cultures and languages.
The media completely failed to catch this apology, which was very tactful on his part.
The second reality that comes through his talks and sermons is that he’s a Jesuit. He always uses Ignatian pedagogy, not Thomist at all. I know that he’s trained in Thomas. But for a Jesuit to replace Ignatius with Thomas contrary to his nature. It ain’t gonna happen.
We have to pay attention to these subtleties to get the full import of what our Holy Father is saying and not rely on the PC Police.
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CaptFun
Guest
http://images.wjla.com/pictures/1635/7-JHY1053_606.jpg
Off to Vegas - trading “Old Maid” for high stakes poker!
Educating the Public About Global Warming
That headline was just too much. Pope Francis’ words of encouragement to our good sisters is very positive. A sort of “don’t keep your light under a bushel” message.
Off to Vegas - trading “Old Maid” for high stakes poker!
Educating the Public About Global Warming
That headline was just too much. Pope Francis’ words of encouragement to our good sisters is very positive. A sort of “don’t keep your light under a bushel” message.
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JReducation
Guest
He didn’t say anything new. He simply repeated what theology has always said about consecrated chastity. Consecrated chastity, be it in religious sisters or religious brothers must bear fruit. It’s not just about staying single. No one gets to heaven because they’re not married.http://images.wjla.com/pictures/1635/7-JHY1053_606.jpg
Off to Vegas - trading “Old Maid” for high stakes poker!
http://media-cache-ak1.pinimg.com/192x/39/b7/23/39b723c7c5ff0ba00c27e766a9c7fe2c.jpg
Educating the Public About Global Warming
That headline was just too much. Pope Francis’ words of encouragement to our good sisters is very positive. A sort of “don’t keep your light under a bushel” message.
It was a wonderful catechesis that should be repeated more frequently. People don’t understand consecrated celibacy. They equate it with the promise of celibacy that diocesan priests make. It’s not the same thing.
The vow of chastity that a religious male or female makes is a commitment to fertility.
I’m not a sister, but I’m a brother. Same vocation, different gender.
I did not give up something. I ran toward something. That something is called LIFE.
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CaptFun
Guest
Thanks for returning the classroom to order after my outburst Brother. And for the insights on (and distinctions concerning) celibacy.
St. Paul puts the “commitment to fertility” you mention more in the terms of being freer to serve the Lord than married persons who had other duties dividing their time (celibacy understood, not just being unmarried).
And of course Paul was celibate himself. As was Jesus who spoke of it thus:
I think I will read the Pope’s message more fully now. Which, as I think about it, is better than making light remarks about a funny (easy to misunderstand and get totally wrong) headline. Like the similar one that encouraged nuns to be “mothers”. I knew what the Pope meant. A few might see that headline and go " Whaaat?"
May the Lord continue to bless you in your vocation Brother.
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Z1Z2
Guest
Mine too. Thanks to his treatment at the nuns’ hands in 5 years of Catholic school while a child, he still to this day has doubts about his intellect.
Thanks to his experience, I had to fight tooth and nail to get him to allow our daughter to go to Catholic school. A few actions by authority figures in childhood can have longterm ramifications.
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Lormar
Guest
My husband’s friend suffered the same at the hands of public school teachers during the same time period. So, it wasn’t just the nuns.Mine too. Thanks to his treatment at the nuns’ hands in 5 years of Catholic school while a child, he still to this day has doubts about his intellect.
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CaptFun
Guest
But be MOTHERS in the sense of …
Mother Angelica: founded TV network, encourages vocations
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXxwg0iZs6obXOmVs9IIAhmUfn9mDi5X2993IytchX35FnRpPr
Mother Theresa: Dedicated her life to serving the poor.
Won a Nobel Peace Prize; Candidate for Sainthood.
Another contemporary role model is raising money for charity by possibly
putting her life on the line.
http://www.joe.ie/uploads/s/34/735//pat.jpg
75 year old Sister Patricia,
a Presentation Order Nun, Sister Patricia plans to
skydive this month to raise 150,000 pounds for
AWARE and the Slieveardagh Rural Development.
This seems to be a charity - not sure what it does. Even after visiting the website, which is interesting and historical. What is to be developed and who doing it isn’t explained.
There is a Heritage Center that gives what looks to be classes on things like “Computer Courses for the Terrified” and “Banjo Classes”.
Not bad. And maybe Sisters’ fundraising efforts are going to more spiritually beneficial things than this! One suffers a bit when being compared to these previous two women … but in another sense its an honor to be named in the same neighborhood.
The second bit was my idea in including Sr. Patricia – who seems to be daring great things at a time when some in the Church retire (or are made to). *
** 75 years old is the mandatory “retirement age” for some church offices. Notably Bishops.
slieveardagh.com/
Mother Angelica: founded TV network, encourages vocations
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXxwg0iZs6obXOmVs9IIAhmUfn9mDi5X2993IytchX35FnRpPr
Mother Theresa: Dedicated her life to serving the poor.
Won a Nobel Peace Prize; Candidate for Sainthood.
Another contemporary role model is raising money for charity by possibly
putting her life on the line.
http://www.joe.ie/uploads/s/34/735//pat.jpg
75 year old Sister Patricia,
a Presentation Order Nun, Sister Patricia plans to
skydive this month to raise 150,000 pounds for
AWARE and the Slieveardagh Rural Development.
This seems to be a charity - not sure what it does. Even after visiting the website, which is interesting and historical. What is to be developed and who doing it isn’t explained.
There is a Heritage Center that gives what looks to be classes on things like “Computer Courses for the Terrified” and “Banjo Classes”.
Not bad. And maybe Sisters’ fundraising efforts are going to more spiritually beneficial things than this! One suffers a bit when being compared to these previous two women … but in another sense its an honor to be named in the same neighborhood.
The second bit was my idea in including Sr. Patricia – who seems to be daring great things at a time when some in the Church retire (or are made to). *
** 75 years old is the mandatory “retirement age” for some church offices. Notably Bishops.
slieveardagh.com/
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jwinch2
Guest
Christ Loved the Church: Francis Throws Down the Gauntlet to Religious
catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=572
No, Sister, the nature of authority and obedience hasn’t changed since Vatican II. . .
hancaquam.blogspot.com/2013/05/no-sister-nature-of-authority-and.html
catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=572
No, Sister, the nature of authority and obedience hasn’t changed since Vatican II. . .
hancaquam.blogspot.com/2013/05/no-sister-nature-of-authority-and.html
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Cojuanco
Guest
Be careful, there is nothing per se wrong with religious wearing secular clothing while engaged in their apostolic work. What matters is their orthodoxy.Yep,we who attended Cathilic school,experienced at least one nun that was far from pleasant.However,I remember many more that really were very sweet. I think Pope Francis was speaking to those rogue nuns we all see andread about ,who are in direct defiance with Church Doctrine.You know,the ones who traded their habits for pantsuits in the 70’s and never looked back!
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