Pope voices hopes for change in another lengthy interview [CWN]

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  1. What is proselytism?
This was something that came across very clearly when he visited Assisi. He referred to St. Francis and the Franciscan tradition never to proselytize. I could tell that he’s applying the Franciscan principle to the Church.

The principle is very simple. The conversion of another soul begins with fraternal concern for the other person. However, there are rules that must be followed. If the other person does not want to hear you out, don’t push it… Leave it alone; but don’t withdraw your friendship or your charity either. Very often, your love will soften the other person and he may want to ask. In other words, one should invite others to the Gospel, not push them into it or push the Gospel on them. St. Francis and the Franciscans are masters at this. The pope was recognizing how St. Francis and the Franciscans had taken the Gospel to many places, including to the sultan of Egypt. They had preached where they had been given permission to preach and had held back where they were prohibited. But not talking does not mean that one cannot preach by one’s life.

In simple words, the pope is saying that we have to proclaim the Gospel. He has been saying this since the first day of his election. But don’t become a mosquito.

Think about how we run away from those who don’t want to speak about anything but religion. That’s what would happen if the Church chose to proselytize.

I have a wonderful example from our Franciscan history. We’ve all heard the story of how Francis preached to the birds. But few know why.

Francis went to preach into a certain village. People would not listen. He felt that he had something to say and that God expected him to say it. Since the people of the town were not interested, he turned toward a tree in which there were many birds and began to deliver his sermon.

The people noticed what he was doing and though that he was coockoo. They started to eavesdrop. In some cases, the Venus Fly Trap closed and those who were listening carefully had been sucked in. But Francis did not make himself obnoxious, nor did he make himself better than others and he did not pretend to know something that others did not know. He approached people with the idea that God reveals himself to everyone. His job was to get people to notice God.
 
Original article:
repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/

Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
“Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. **We have to encourage people **to move towards what they think is Good.” by Pope Francis

Does this sound like relativism? What about Absolute Truth?

Regardless of what people think, Christ who is God and the ultimate Good is the only answer.
 
Original article:
repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/

Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
“Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. **We have to encourage people **to move towards what they think is Good.” by Pope Francis

Does this sound like relativism? What about Absolute Truth?

Regardless of what people think, Christ who is God and the ultimate Good is the only answer.
Only if we do not understand the theology that inspire his words.

Consider Mother Theresa and Blessed Pope John Paul the Great.
 
Only if we do not understand the theology that inspire his words.

Consider Mother Theresa and Blessed Pope John Paul the Great.
Explain what theology. What do Mother Theresa and Blessed Pope John Paul have to say that support Pope Francis in this quote?
 
Only if we do not understand the theology that inspire his words.

Consider Mother Theresa and Blessed Pope John Paul the Great.
Why is it always someone else’s fault they don’t understand Pope Francis? Can he articulate clearly enough? hmmm.

Why are there countless different versions of “understanding” what Pope Francis had to say by numerous Catholic commentators?

The controversy and confusion is out of control.😦
 
Explain what theology. What do Mother Theresa and Blessed Pope John Paul have to say that support Pope Francis in this quote?
Hello sisblessed, 🙂

It’s not just Mother Theresa, Blessed Pope John Paul the Great *and *Saint Francis but, of course, Our Lord Jesus, who helps me to understand His Holiness Pope Francis.

1.Mother Theresa, to my surprise for many years (as I did not understand), did not try to intellectually or verbally (necessarily) to convert the Hindus she served. She tried to help them be better Hindus! I thought, what?!?

2.Blessed Pope John Paul the Great, kissed the Koran, and I thought: what!?!

But, after much praying and asking the Holy Spirit to help me to understand - I do now. 🙂

Let’s start here: Do you understand stand number 1 and 2 above?

Btw, have you read Bro JR’s post about how we do not want to be mosquitoes? 😛

It was Saint Francis who said something about evangelizing and when necessary use words.

See also, Saint Paul’s letter to the Romans and the account of Jesus in pagan lands (decapolis).
 
Hello sisblessed, 🙂

It’s not just Mother Theresa, Blessed Pope John Paul the Great, Saint Francis but, of course, Our Lord Jesus, which helps me to understand.

1.Mother Theresa, to my surprise for many years (as I did not understand), did not try to intellectually or verbally (necessarily) to convert the Hindus she served. She tried to help them be better Hindus! I thought, what?!?

2.Blessed Pope John Paul the Great, kissed the Koran, and I thought: what!?!

But, after much praying and asking the Holy Spirit to help me to understand - I do now. 🙂

Let’s start here: Do you understand stand number 1 and 2 above?

Btw, have you read Bro JR’s post about how we do not want to be mosquitoes? 😛
You did not examine the statements from the interview:

Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
“Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. **We have to encourage people **to move towards what they think is Good.” by Pope Francis

We are obligated as Christians and Catholics to speak the Truth when asked a direct question.

Do you not believe there is a single vision of the Good? Christ Lord of all! Absolute Truth!
 
Do you not believe there is a single vision of the Good? Christ Lord of all! Absolute Truth!
Of course I do and so does His Holiness Pope Francis. The Pope, you and I, share the same faith. So, there must be some clarification due, right? We, of course, do not want to debate for the sake of debating, instead, we want to understand and carry on, right?

Do you really think that if the Cardinals thought Pope Francis was a relativist they would not be trying to do what they can to protect the Church and our Faith?

So, there must be some explanation that we need to listen to and perhaps learn something along the way.

I will be back with some quotes. I am hoping someone more eloquent than I am will also try to respond to your query.

Peace
 
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Forum rules forbid derogatory and negative posts against any Catholic clergy. But also, beware or you may fall to the the sin of pride. If you feel the Holy Father said something against the faith, it is very likely that you heard incorrectly, what he said was incorrectly reported or you misunderstand the faith. Review what he really said and review your understanding of the faith.

Feel free to ask if you have questions about the faith. That is what CAF is for. Discuss what you find controversial. Avoid personal dogmatic statements.

The Holy Father challenges us all to fully understand, and live our faith.
 
I would encourage you and everyone, including my brothers, not to box in the pope. Allow me to give a personal example. I run a program for our archdiocese called Project Joseph. It’s a ministry for expectant fathers and fathers in crisis pregnancies. The end goal of the program is found in the name itself, to evangelize men so that they may be the kind of fathers and spouses as St. Joseph.

If we’re speaking about the day to day situation of my dads, I would probably say something like, “The biggest problem my dads have is a lack of self-control and discipline.” On another day, I may reflect on the fact that most of my dads are unemployed and have serous material hardships. I can understand the despair when an unwelcome pregnancy occurs. They need jobs; but they need education to get those jobs . . . and so forth.

I am by no means placing the temporal and emotional needs over salvation. I would expect that if someone who is talking to me and they see that I’m wearing a worn out habit, have a long grey beard, have holes in my shoes and put cardboard in the inner sole to keep my feet dry would get some kind of an inkling that there is more to me than social work. In other words, I don’t have to go to the soul each and every time I reflect on the needs of the people whom we serve. The fact that I don’t do so does not mean that it’s not important to me. It simply means that at this moment the fact the John Doe is looking for an abortion, because he has no money to support a child is a major preoccupation for me. If I start to talk to John Doe about chastity and sin, while he’s worried about his next meal, we’re going to pass each other like two ships in the night. I have to start where he’s at, not where I want to go.

In addition, I am still a human being. The soul does not occupy my attention 24/7. This does not minimize the importance of our eternal salvation. It’s simply a fact of life. Jesus made breakfast for the Apostles. Mary was concerned over wine at a wedding.

God became man to save humanity. We can’t just separate what is temporal from what is immortal and focus on the immortal. Humanity is both. As I said before, anyone who is looking at a man in a white cassock who happens to be the Bishop of Rome and the Pontiff of the Catholic Church should know that he is concerned about the immortal soul. Maybe, just maybe, at this moment he’s thinking that it is best to begin where people are at and progress from there rather than passing them as ships in the night.

Just as there is the danger of overdoing the social dimension of service to the point that charity is reduced to social work, there is also the danger of over emphasizing the spiritual dimension of man that one falls into Docetism.

I’m certainly not concerned with Francis’ ability to lead the Church. I think that he’ll do just fine. He won’t be perfect. We have not yet had the perfect pope and we never will. First of all, Jesus is not in line for election. Secondly, even if Jesus were elected Pontiff of his own Church, human beings would find something to complain about.

I do believe that we’re in for a very different papacy. I believe and have said this over and over again, that part of the problem here (not all of it) is that this man is a religious. He thinks like a religious. He is very attached to his religious family and its traditions. He uses Ignatian pedagogy when he speaks. He is the typical Jesuit, a public relations disaster, but genuine to the core. He will, if he lives long enough (he’s not that young) transform the papacy into a paradigm that is very Jesuit.

I can see this already. The Council of Cardinals is not a new idea. It’s an Ignatian idea. Ignatius always believed that the Church should be governed by the pope, but that the pope, like a military commander, should have a council, a sort of privy council. When he wrote the statutes for his order, Ignatius refused, I mean absolutely refused to use a rule of life as do other religious orders. His reason was simple. A rule of life is too structured. He wrote statutes that the Jesuits could change at any time according to their needs and preferences. However, he established that the order had to be governed by one superior general. All authority rests on him. He is elected by the order and he governs with a council. That council has no authority and no special place in the order. The superior must talk to the council, but the council may not dictate to the superior. The superior can ignore it. This council is a body that is totally off limits to anyone else in the Church except the pope. Sounds very similar, does it not?
Love your work with expectant fathers. This is much needed. Thank you. This entire post is spot on. Pope Francis is like fresh air coming into an open window, and old stale air is on it’s way out. He, like JP II, is the “People’s Pope”. In order to reach us, he is out there with us. He is also not ignoring the financial and other inside concerns of the Church. He is running headlong into affray …unafraid and is keeping us posted of what he is doing. He encourages the clergy to get out from behind their desks and go out among the people. Hmmmmmm…I wonder who else said that a long, long, time ago. 😃
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCall1981
Read the comments, people seem afraid, confused and uneasy
same here
I think this is just happening in the English speaking world. I don’t know if it’s because of media spin, or because there’s a greater divide between “conservatives” and “progressives”,( terms I hate, we should all just be Catholics) in the English world.

In Italy everyone loves pope Francis. I’ve been listening to Padre Pio TV on the Internet and they are overjoyed that the great pope Benedict has been followed by the great pope Francis. In their call in shows, their commentaries, their discussion panels, there is not even a hint of apprehension about his holiness. He is seen as continuing the work pope Benedict would have undertaken, had his health permitted. When I get a bit of a negative overload from the conservative-progressive infighting on English sites, I turn to Padre Pio TV, for a balanced perspective centred on the gospel. They never portrayed Benedict as extremely conservative, and do not present pope Francis as liberal, both popes are represented as humble servants of the church. Anyone who has an understanding of Italian, might like to listen to padre pio TV.

teleradiopadrepio.it/
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCall1981
Read the comments, people seem afraid, confused and uneasy

I think this is just happening in the English speaking world. I don’t know if it’s because of media spin, or because there’s a greater divide between “conservatives” and “progressives”,( terms I hate, we should all just be Catholics) in the English world.

In Italy everyone loves pope Francis. I’ve been listening to Padre Pio TV on the Internet and they are overjoyed that the great pope Benedict has been followed by the great pope Francis. In their call in shows, their commentaries, their discussion panels, there is not even a hint of apprehension about his holiness. He is seen as continuing the work pope Benedict would have undertaken, had his health permitted. When I get a bit of a negative overload from the conservative-progressive infighting on English sites, I turn to Padre Pio TV, for a balanced perspective centred on the gospel. They never portrayed Benedict as extremely conservative, and do not present pope Francis as liberal, both popes are represented as humble servants of the church. Anyone who has an understanding of Italian, might like to listen to padre pio TV.

teleradiopadrepio.it/
I read all the recent original writings and Jesuit America interviews of Pope Francis and receive my news sources from traditional reliable Catholic news sources.

As I mentioned there are countless “versions” on how to explain Pope Francis by Catholic commentators.

And yes there is a divide on the left and right. It is sad. Clear Concise Catholicism and Catholic Teaching creates order not confusion.

Yes I do have conservative traditional Catholic views based on Sacred Scripture (with love the sinner hate the sin).

My spirit is crushed and my soul dismayed by this constant confusion. How many other Catholics, knowing Scripture or not, are to say the least bit concerned?

As a Pro-Life advocate for years, I disagree with the most serious of evils, most urgent most dramatic, we face in the recent Pope Francis interview.

repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/

What do other Catholic Pro-Life advocates say? 🙂
 
No, if you want to understand his theology “consider” Cardinal Martini.
Why, because he is also a Jesuit or because of his stance with same sex civil marriages?

“Same-sex unions[edit]
In his book Credere e conoscere, published shortly before his death, Martini set out his disagreement with the Catholic teaching against homosexual civil unions. “I disagree with the positions of those in the Church, that take issue with civil unions”, he wrote. “It is not bad, instead of casual sex between men, that two people have a certain stability” and that the “state could recognize them.” Although he stated his belief that “the homosexual couple, as such, can never be totally equated to a marriage”, he also said that he could understand (although not necessarily approve of) gay pride parades when they support the need for self-affirmation.[25][26]” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Maria_Martini

Or, are there other reasons?
 
What do other Catholic Pro-Life advocates say? 🙂
A lot of the criticism about the Pope is coming from those that worked in Pro-life. It only demonstrates that the Pope is right. I for one will follow the Pope, even if he tells me to stop doing something I find enriching and fulfilling. And, I will most certainly with God’s help not go around criticizing him because he took my candy away.

He is not Pro-Abortion or Pro-homosexuality and he has not said for people to stop working on making others aware of how wrong abortion is. What he has said is that he is going to focus on other things. And, yes, something about an ‘obsession’ which I agree with also.
 
Or, are there other reasons?
I was thinking more like the fact that in his recent interview Martini is mentioned twice and refered to as “someone close to [his] heart” and Mother Theresa, John Paul II and Benedict XVI don’t get a shout out. Also, the sort of language we are hearing from Pope Francis calls to mind the language often associated with the likes of Martini (e.g. collegiality, horizontal church, church for the poor) and seems (in my humble opinion) to mark a departure from the sort of language we were hearing from John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

It’s not a judgement, it’s an observation.
 
A lot of the criticism about the Pope is coming from those that worked in Pro-life. It only demonstrates that the Pope is right. **I for one will follow the Pope, even if he tells me to stop doing something I find enriching and fulfilling. **And, I will most certainly with God’s help not go around criticizing him because he took my candy away.

He is not Pro-Abortion or Pro-homosexuality and he has not said for people to stop working on making others aware of how wrong abortion is. What he has said is that he is going to focus on other things. And, yes, something about an ‘obsession’ which I agree with also.
Stop doing what in the Pro-Life movement? Elaborate.

Clarification: Are there any Pro-Lifers to speak out there? This question is for those actively currently involved in the Pro-Life efforts in the Catholic Faith.🙂
 
Why, because he is also a Jesuit or because of his stance with same sex civil marriages?

“Same-sex unions[edit]
In his book Credere e conoscere, published shortly before his death, Martini set out his disagreement with the Catholic teaching against homosexual civil unions. “I disagree with the positions of those in the Church, that take issue with civil unions”, he wrote. “It is not bad, instead of casual sex between men, that two people have a certain stability” and that the “state could recognize them.” Although he stated his belief that “the homosexual couple, as such, can never be totally equated to a marriage”, he also said that he could understand (although not necessarily approve of) gay pride parades when they support the need for self-affirmation.[25][26]” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Maria_Martini

Or, are there other reasons?
Would like to read the book to see exactly what he said. :confused:
 
Would like to read the book to see exactly what he said. :confused:
Hi,
Well, I am not going to speculate about what Pope Francis is going to do exactly but we don’t need to jump the gun and consider that because he was a colleague of Martini that he is considering what Martini wrote. I humbly think, KrazyKat, that the fact the Pope said he is not going to make the focus of his papacy the pro-life movement and homosexuality, it does not necessarily follow that he may do all the sorts of things people are speculating about. Such as, for instance, what Martini wrote. Let’s relax and pray the Holy Spirit guides our Pope. Keep in mind that a lot of people are criticizing him and feeding the frenzy for their own reasons.

Our faith teaches us that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit. Pope Francis is not being guided by the spirit of Martini. Yes, he is a man and he has been influenced by other men in his thoughts and actions just like every other human being. However, he is also the Pope and I trust and have GREAT faith that he is being guided by the Holy Spirit.

I would not focus so much in the things of this world, I would not think that Martini is the influence of our Pope. We have to rise above that and consider how he is living and implementing the Gospel not the ideologies of someone called Martini.

Matthew 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[a] I will build my church, and the gates of hell** shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[c] in heaven.”**
 
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