Pope vows to study US criticism of his anti-capitalist rhetoric

[gilliam]

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE — At the close of a week-long trip to Latin America that elicited some of Pope Francis’ most fiery anti-capitalist rhetoric to date, the pontiff acknowledged his views stirred controversy in the United States and vowed to ponder those reactions ahead of a September trip to the country.

“I heard that there were some criticisms from the United States. I must begin studying these criticisms, no?” he said. “Then we shall dialogue about them.”

Interestingly for a pontiff who has made economic justice a central theme, Francis said he’s generally “allergic” to financial matters. Of accounting, he said: “I don’t understand it very well.”

The pontiff acknowledged that his commentary on the economy tends to focus on the poor rather than the middle class, insisting that the poor are at the heart of the Christian Gospel. However, he called the imbalance “an error of mine” and said reconsidering it is “something I need to do.”

cruxnow.com/church/2015/07/13/pope-vows-to-study-us-criticism-of-his-anti-capitalist-rhetoric/

 

[zz912]

The pontiff acknowledged that his commentary on the economy tends to focus on the poor rather than the middle class, insisting that the poor are at the heart of the Christian Gospel. However, he called the imbalance “an error of mine” and said reconsidering it is “something I need to do.”

Glad he is at least open to listening.

Perhaps he should learn a bit more about the middle class. Who does he think is going to give money to the poor?

 

[FollowChrist34]

Glad he is at least open to listening.

Perhaps he should learn a bit more about the middle class. Who does he think is going to give money to the poor?

I think is it cultural; he is from Argentina (and Jesuit). If you or I were from Argentina I think we would think and feel the exact same way he does, I really do. He is speaking for his people. Nothing wrong with that. I think God wants him to do that.

But, no, he doesn’t know anything about those who work so hard and just hang on the edge of poverty, but are not in it. The ones who do manage to keep a job, pay taxes, etc. I don’t think he sees them as the capitalistic filthy rich, but they are sadly not on his radar sometimes; he just sees the rich and poor, good guys and bad guys, like something out of a morality play.

 

[cmicher]

What is the definition of rich?

 

[estesbob]

What is the definition of rich?

Anybody who makes more money that you do.

 

[esieffe]

It’s easy to drive by some huge house and think they are rich. Many “trust fund babies” try to live as they grew up and are leveraged to the hilts. That’s just the American way isn’t it?

I think once you get older, if your lucky, your values change. I don’t care what my car looks like, and I certainly don’t have to have the latest smart phone. I would rather not have to worry about bills.

Catholicism, combined with age I guess, has changed my views on possessions quite a bit. Oh sure, I do still have white down pillows and high thread count sheets but I don’t care about having stuff. In fact, I would like to get rid of as much stuff as I can. It is pretty liberating.

 

[anthony022071]

I think is it cultural; he is from Argentina (and Jesuit). If you or I were from Argentina I think we would think and feel the exact same way he does, I really do. He is speaking for his people. Nothing wrong with that. I think God wants him to do that.

But, no, he doesn’t know anything about those who work so hard and just hang on the edge of poverty, but are not in it. The ones who do manage to keep a job, pay taxes, etc. I don’t think he sees them as the capitalistic filthy rich, but they are sadly not on his radar sometimes; he just sees the rich and poor, good guys and bad guys, like something out of a morality play.

It isn’t his concern for the poor that offends people,its his unfair and sometimes untrue accusations concerning the economy,which come from socialism,and his naive advocacy of certain of certain socialist claims,attitudes and proposals.

 

[stinkcat_14]

It isn’t his concern for the poor that offends people,its his unfair and sometimes untrue accusations concerning the economy,which come from socialism,and his naive advocacy of certain of certain socialist claims,attitudes and proposals.

What are these unfair and untrue accusations?

 

[FollowChrist34]

It isn’t his concern for the poor that offends people,its his unfair and sometimes untrue accusations concerning the economy,which come from socialism,and his naive advocacy of certain of certain socialist claims,attitudes and proposals.

I am not sure I disagree with you. I guess I would just say that my point is that he inadvertently often neglects the middle class probably because of his background more than his politics - a middle class which incidentally is a huge number of people in the US and also in Europe (and Asia). I am not quite sure whether we are on the “rich” hit list or the “poor” sympathy list. I do know our taxes keep the US afloat (to the extent it is afloat), including funding many, many social programs, along of course with the taxes paid by the rich (at a much higher rate).

 

[Bill_Martin]

I think the Pope often ends up speaking to a global audience (intentionally or not) with a specific local situation in mind. Then each side of the political spectrum in countries thousands of miles away adapts what he said to fit their views, whether positively (hey look, he’s a socialist like us) or negatively (this guy’s a flat out Marxist, what’s wrong with these Catholics?).

His comments on arms suppliers are a good example. I assume he meant people supplying weapons to violent groups such as ISIS, not the local Wal-Mart’s sporting goods department, but each side in the US saw his comments through a pro-gun/anti-gun lens.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t think the generality of us really know what the Pope truly thinks about much of anything. He speaks in sound bites or is at least quoted that way, and is easily misunderstood. I certainly don’t pretend to know what he thinks in any detail.

I can imagine his history having a large influence on his thinking. Argentina is a country that had and has all the potential one could imagine, yet manages incessantly, to avoid realizing that potential. It’s a baffling place; richly endowed in resources and people, and yet seems to bounce back and forth between extremes without ever reaching a stable, middle (shall I say “bourgeois”?) state.

What he thinks of the U.S. and western Europe and their institutions, I have no idea. And more’s the pity, because I don’t think very many of us do. It would help if we did.

 

[baliano]

Considering the issues facing the Church, perhaps economics should be left to the experts and more time devoted to the Church. Before you ask: the Bishops who are attempting to change Church teaching on marriage and divorce related to communion; the challenges faced in several countries with clear anti-Christian policies on abortion and marriage; the insufficient number of priests and near non-existence of religious to name my top few.

 

[Saint_Frank]

US Conservatives are the last people he should be listening to on economic matters (along with the leftist “progressive”, socialist, communist menagerie). The economic theories of those groups are outside of Christian social teaching. One wants to cripple social services and let corporations and Wall Street run amuck while fanboying over loons like Ayn Rand and the other wants to wreck Western Civilization and enforce “equality” on us. Both are no good. Much better to look at Third Position alternatives. Time for something different.

 

[FollowChrist34]

US Conservatives are the last people he should be listening to on economic matters (along with the leftist “progressive”, socialist, communist menagerie). The economic theories of those groups are outside of Christian social teaching. One wants to cripple social services and let corporations and Wall Street run amuck while fanboying over loons like Ayn Rand and the other wants to wreck Western Civilization and enforce “equality” on us. Both are no good. Much better to look at Third Position alternatives. Time for something different.

Why not just do the obvious thing right in front of our face and not go to either extreme? To me that is the easy answer and the easy solution. Compromise, common ground can be the holy grail, how is that.

 

[Saint_Frank]

Why not just do the obvious thing right in front of our face and not go to either extreme? To me that is the easy answer and the easy solution. Compromise, common ground can be the holy grail, how is that.

I think we’re past the point of compromising. There’s too much of a division.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I think we’re past the point of compromising. There’s too much of a division.

If we don’t heal this division, this country won’t survive.

 

[Saint_Frank]

If we don’t heal this division, this country won’t survive.

Actually, you make a good point. Third Position economic theories are a sort of synthesis of right and left theories. They allow for capitalism but a form of capitalism that’s subordinated to the needs of the nation.

But I’m some sort of wacky neo-Fascist that has more in common with European movements like the French National Front than I do with the American version of the right-wing. I just don’t fit into American politics.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, you make a good point. Third Position economic theories are a sort of synthesis of right and left theories. They allow for capitalism but a form of capitalism that’s subordinated to the needs of the nation.

But I’m some sort of wacky neo-Fascist that has more in common with European movements like the French National Front than I do with the American version of the right-wing. I just don’t fit into American politics.

I don’t have a lot of confidence in fascism resulting in a decent economy. Argentina has tried it off and on for decades, and all it seems to succeed in doing is impoverish an inherently rich country.

 

[Saint_Frank]

I don’t have a lot of confidence in fascism resulting in a decent economy. Argentina has tried it off and on for decades, and all it seems to succeed in doing is impoverish an inherently rich country.

I don’t know much about Argentina, so I can’t comment on that. I’m more interested in what’s going on in Europe.

 

[meltzerboy]

What is the definition of rich?

“Who is rich? He who is content with his own share.” (Talmud)