Pope vows to study US criticism of his anti-capitalist rhetoric

[Theo520]

Except you have fewer people quitting after fourth grade.

hmmm. I always thought attending school was about getting an education, not a degree

According to a study conducted in 2013 by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can’t read. That’s 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can’t read.

I would bet the majority are residing in our metropolitan areas, not rural locations.

 

[stinkcat_14]

hmmm. I always thought attending school was about getting an education, not a degree

So you are saying that in 1900 kids learned everything they needed to know if four years? I am not sure what your point is.

According to a study conducted in 2013 by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can’t read. That’s 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can’t read.

I would bet the majority are residing in our metropolitan areas, not rural locations.

And what was the literacy rate among people who left after fourth grade in 1900?

Since 80% of the population lives in urban areas, it is not surprising that there are more illiterate people living in metropolitan areas.

 

[stinkcat_14]

We get lots of people with non-accounting degrees interviewing for entry level bookkeeping jobs. At one point my supervisor had a Masters in Sociology. One of my current bookkeepers has a degree in History.

Those are definitely the areas where you are going to find a lot of the socially conscious stuff. If you can find someone from those fields who gets the idea of business, they can be very good, but some can be very clueless. I have a friend who is a top economist who actually was an english major. He is one of the few who can actually write and produce something that is enjoyable to read.

 

[Peccavi]

Perhaps you could tell us what it is?

I could but that would be to deny you the joy and pleasure of discovering Jesus teachings for yourself. He speaks much plainer than I do.

 

[estesbob]

I could but that would be to deny you the joy and pleasure of discovering Jesus teachings for yourself. He speaks much plainer than I do.

So plain you can’t explain what he says. LOL

 

[estesbob]

Those are definitely the areas where you are going to find a lot of the socially conscious stuff. If you can find someone from those fields who gets the idea of business, they can be very good, but some can be very clueless. I have a friend who is a top economist who actually was an english major. He is one of the few who can actually write and produce something that is enjoyable to read.

I went to a Jesuit School and got an accounting degree however they also required one to have a minor in theology and philosophy to graduate.

 

[Peccavi]

So plain you can’t explain what he says. LOL

Sure I can, but I thought you might like to try to tease out what Jesus is telling us. Try working out the economics of the Loaves and fishes. Its really quite easy.

 

[Theo520]

So you are saying that in 1900 kids learned everything they needed to know if four years? I am not sure what your point is.

And what was the literacy rate among people who left after fourth grade in 1900?

Since 80% of the population lives in urban areas, it is not surprising that there are more illiterate people living in metropolitan areas.

I effectively countered your invalid point. Look up your own data if you want to dispute or counter what I shared.

Stop being lazy.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I effectively countered your invalid point. Look up your own data if you want to dispute or counter what I shared.

Stop being lazy.

You effectively countered nothing. You made a claim, a claim that I might add you are too lazy to back up. So I would watch who you are calling lazy when you exhibited laziness yourself.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

It is really difficult to say how many people capitalism has lifted out of poverty. It is certainly an important component, but capitalism by itself is not sufficient to lift people out of poverty. For example, in the US we have benefited by an education system that was provided primarily by government and nonprofits. Clearly today there is the problem of rent seeking by education providers, but the problem is that the market by itself is not going to educate poor people and make them productive and therefore get them higher wages.

Yes and no. Without capitalism there would not be sufficient tax revenues to fund our education system. In addition, our public education system has been in decline for about 40 years.

On the other hand, it is easy to track the success of nations that have moved from state control to free market economies.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Yes and no. Without capitalism there would not be sufficient tax revenues to fund our education system. In addition, our public education system has been in decline for about 40 years.

Our public education system has been in decline and wages have stagnated. No real surprise there. The point however, is that the market is not going educate poor kids. There is not enough money in it if it only comes through the marketplace. So if you want to lift people out of poverty, you need nonmarket institutions as well.

On the other hand, it is easy to track the success of nations that have moved from state control to free market economies.

I never said that capitalism was not a desirable economic system. It works well for the broad majority. However, how well it works by itself for the poor is something that has not been establish. An important part of lifting people out of poverty but by no means sufficient.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Our public education system has been in decline and wages have stagnated. No real surprise there. The point however, is that the market is not going educate poor kids. There is not enough money in it if it only comes through the marketplace. So if you want to lift people out of poverty, you need nonmarket institutions as well.

I never said that capitalism was not a desirable economic system. It works well for the broad majority. However, how well it works by itself for the poor is something that has not been establish. An important part of lifting people out of poverty but by no means sufficient.

I agree that government has a legitimate function in society, including providing public education and a financial safety net.

I don’t think we disagree.

 

[estesbob]

Sure I can, but I thought you might like to try to tease out what Jesus is telling us. Try working out the economics of the Loaves and fishes. Its really quite easy.

I have done what you suggested. I have broken open the word and teased out what Jesus meant. And as I expected he gives a ringing endorsement of capitalism as it is practiced in the United States today. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Theo520]

You effectively countered nothing. You made a claim, a claim that I might add you are too lazy to back up. So I would watch who you are calling lazy when you exhibited laziness yourself.

So you think 4th grade graduates of old are dummer that illiterates of today.

Let’s agree to disagree.

 

[stinkcat_14]

So you think 4th grade graduates of old are dummer that illiterates of today.

Let’s agree to disagree.

Actually, the problem is that you are not comparing the relevant segments of the population. People who are illiterate represent the bottom 10-15% of the population. So the question is: Is the bottom 10-15% of the population today smarter or dumber than the bottom 10-15% of the population in 1900? That is an empirical question for which we would need data to answer.

 

[Ridgerunner]

At one time, the United States.

At one time, and at least in some places, it was sort of true. Many decades ago, country schools were largely supported by the parents of the kids who went to them. To the extent they received “public” money, it was a very local “public”, the country district itself.
Where I live, those districts were very small compared to today.

It was true, too, that children were free to go to whatever school they wanted, among the “public” schools. It wasn’t compulsory to attend school in your own district. It is now, of course, though some will allow a student to attend if he pays the full per-pupil cost. That’s really high, so nobody does, to my knowledge.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, the problem is that you are not comparing the relevant segments of the population. People who are illiterate represent the bottom 10-15% of the population. So the question is: Is the bottom 10-15% of the population today smarter or dumber than the bottom 10-15% of the population in 1900? That is an empirical question for which we would need data to answer.

Certainly data would be needed to know that, but I’m not sure data would help, presently. Whenever a society has a strong influx of functionally illiterate immigrants, or near illiterates, the “bottom 10-15%” economically is not necessarily going to be the “bottom 10-15%” in intellectual capability, even though, among the native-born, it might be. A country with a lot of recent immigrants from primitive places is bound to have skewed results from they would have been in a society that had had no immigration for a long time.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Certainly data would be needed to know that, but I’m not sure data would help, presently. Whenever a society has a strong influx of functionally illiterate immigrants, or near illiterates, the “bottom 10-15%” economically is not necessarily going to be the “bottom 10-15%” in intellectual capability, even though, among the native-born, it might be. A country with a lot of recent immigrants from primitive places is bound to have skewed results from they would have been in a society that had had no immigration for a long time.

I was talking about the bottom 10-15% of the population in academic skills. When I was in graduate school I may be been in the bottom 10-15% of the population in income level, but hopefully I was more literate than my economic status suggested.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was talking about the bottom 10-15% of the population in academic skills. When I was in graduate school I may be been in the bottom 10-15% of the population in income level, but hopefully I was more literate than my economic status suggested.

What I said would still be true, though. Lack of present academic skills in people who came from primitive places recently doesn’t tell us anything about their inherent abilities.

 

[sallybutler]

I have done what you suggested. I have broken open the word and teased out what Jesus meant. And as I expected he gives a ringing endorsement of capitalism as it is practiced in the United States today. Thank you for pointing that out.

Further proof of why we need the Church’s guidance in interpreting the Bible. Otherwise, we tend to see what we want to see.