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triumphguy
Guest
Let me quote the prophet Amos:
That is about Justice, not envy.
Two sins that “cry out to heaven for vengence” are
- oppression of the poor (Ex 2:23),
and
- defrauding workers of their just wages (Jas 5:4).
Pope Warns Against New Colonialism: Corporations, Loan Agencies, and Austerity Measures That Hurt Poor
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Two sins that “cry out to heaven for vengence” are
and
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ProVobis
Guest
The 1% or so will have to answer to God for that.
Governments and corporations, however, will not be standing before God.
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triumphguy
Guest
Well, we vote for the Governments and have shares of these corporations in our pension plans, or mutual funds (etc), so we have some share of the blame too.
What am I willing to do, give up, or sacrifice for more justice in the world?
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Governments and corporations are run by people and people certainly can sin. If you are a congressman, you may well pay attention to the bankers view on regulation rather than how that regulation will affect poor people. Mainly because poor people don’t contribute to campaigns, bankers often do though. The banker and the congressman will have to answer to God though.
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edwest2
Guest
We will die and then the judgment. Whatever you were in life, God knows each of us. Choose wisely now.
Peace,
Ed
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ProVobis
Guest
According to economic theory, I’m not sure you need to sacrifice anything. Gross national product measures the amount of money that is being circulated and if you buy from say, a poor person selling pencils or magazines, for example, you help him, yourself, and the economy. But I realize not everyone is into selling pencils or magazines (or collecting and selling old newspapers to a fish shop as I did in the U.K.) so I don’t know what to tell you there. But it is a question all of us are asked to think about, I think.
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triumphguy
Guest
Cool - they don’t even use newspapers anymore!
I used to think I’d scored when I found my fish and chips wrapped in the Sun p. 3.
( Probably too much information
)
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edwest2
Guest
Even some pennies in the Poor Box add up.
Ed
Ed
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baliano
Guest
The US is a clear example of those who need the most assistance consistently voting for politicians who cause them the most harm, just look at the present administration for proof. The numbers of those voting for their own enslavement exceed the number of voters who would change the current system so change has been nearly impossible. Those of us who vote for candidates who sound right and have historically acted correctly are still fooled because, once elected these candidates do whatever they please.
As for the one percent or even ten percent who control the wealth, they earned it and who am I to judge how. The way to get more of that money back into the public circulation is to tax it fairly, a flat tax without loopholes or exceptions does that. Some argue a flat tax strains the poor so I ask, are the poor not presently under a more severe strain with our regressive system of taxation? The unfortunate problem is that governments tend to use added tax income to government’s advantage, not the public’s, so clearly the people must also regain control of the government. Remember that governments are supposed to exist for and at the pleasure of the voters, not the other way around.
As for the one percent or even ten percent who control the wealth, they earned it and who am I to judge how. The way to get more of that money back into the public circulation is to tax it fairly, a flat tax without loopholes or exceptions does that. Some argue a flat tax strains the poor so I ask, are the poor not presently under a more severe strain with our regressive system of taxation? The unfortunate problem is that governments tend to use added tax income to government’s advantage, not the public’s, so clearly the people must also regain control of the government. Remember that governments are supposed to exist for and at the pleasure of the voters, not the other way around.
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pete_29
Guest
Justice in the world? There is no justice in this world. There never has been. Someone will always have more than someone else and that someone will always hate the one who has more. People will always kill one another then blame others or society for causing them to kill. This is Satan’s realm and the only justice we are ever going to see is that doled out by Jesus at the end.
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edwest2
Guest
That’s a bit extreme. Justice is served in many cases. Sometimes, inmates are released because new evidence and/or new technology shows they are not guilty.Justice in the world? There is no justice in this world. There never has been. Someone will always have more than someone else and that someone will always hate the one who has more. People will always kill one another then blame others or society for causing them to kill. This is Satan’s realm and the only justice we are ever going to see is that doled out by Jesus at the end.
Governments are overrun by special interest groups. It would be a good thing if a more level ‘playing field’ could be created. Unfortunately, in the US, I vote for the candidate I think will cause the least harm.
Ed
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stinkcat_14
Guest
I think just pure critical thinking demands that we realize that there are desirable ways and undesirable ways of gaining wealth. The drug lords in Mexico and other countries have gained wealth, but we ought not be so timid as to not judge how they get their wealth. The bankers who got wealthy through government bailouts deserve our judgement so that we never reward bad behavior like that again. There are some who are wealthy who didn’t earn it, for example, do you really think Bill and Hillary earned their wealth? Or is it just payoffs for political favors?
We will never have fiscal responsibility in the US as long as we keep electing republicans and democrats. Neither side has a track record for fiscal responsibility.
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anthony022071
Guest
Justice is about giving to each person what he is due. In particular cases,that begs the question - what is due to this person?
That some people are very wealthy while others are very poor does not necessary mean that the wealthy have defrauded the poor or that they are the cause of the poverty of others. We need to think logically about this.
Companies defrauding workers of their wages is one thing,but the mere fact that the companies are very wealthy while many other people are poor is another.
If we accuse a company of causing poverty,we should show a clear connection between the company’s practices and other people’s poverty.
People who are poor are not usually in that state because they are being defrauded of their wages,but because of lack of motivation and organization and economic development.
People throughout history have observed that poverty is a result of sloth and negligence and drunkenness and squandering money and inheritance and living a dissipated life. These observations are found in scripture.
There may be as little connection between the wealth of large companies and other people’s poverty as there is between the wealth of us middle class people and the poverty of people who live in ghettos or homeless people. We owe it to the poor people we meet to help them if they need our help,but that owing does not mean our wealth is the cause of their poverty or was gotten at their disadvantage. Likewise,the wealth of large corporations is not necessarily the cause of other people’s poverty or gotten at the disadvantage of the poor. We should have the same attitude towards people who are wealthier than us that we have towards ourselves.
People throughout history have observed that poverty is a result of sloth and negligence and squandering money and inheritance and living a dissipated life. This is found in scripture.
If a company is defrauding workers of their wages or paying them far too little for their work,the authorities of the Church can rebuke it and try to compel it to do what is just. But the financial transactions and profits it makes should not be our concern,if nothing clearly wrong is being done.
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triumphguy
Guest
Matthew 25 tells us different, as do the Beatitudes.Justice in the world? There is no justice in this world. There never has been. Someone will always have more than someone else and that someone will always hate the one who has more. People will always kill one another then blame others or society for causing them to kill. This is Satan’s realm and the only justice we are ever going to see is that doled out by Jesus at the end.
Final Justice is of course through Christ, but we must do our part to create right relationships in the world.
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triumphguy
Guest
Thomas Aquinas would say that your excess in a time when your neighbours are suffering though poverty is owed in justice (by NATURAL RIGHT) to them.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Poverty can be a result of these things, however there are other causes of poverty as well. For example, I have a friend who works hard and makes $250 a month in a developing country. He doesn’t drink nor does he squander his money, but he is likely to be poor for most of his life, because he lacks access to education and other factors that contribute to higher incomes. There are two basic reasons why people are poor: first, people do stupid things, second, bad things happen (i.e. born in the wrong country) or lack of opportunity. We don’t really know what percentage of poor people come from each cause.
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SWolf
Guest
It says something that one has to dig back to the 1940s to come up with a ‘good’ foreign aid program, and still be wrong.
wsj.com/articles/SB865542161631659500
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zz912
Guest
Those 3,500,000,000 people are poor because of socialism.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Is there a nonsocialist country in existence?
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ProVobis
Guest
To be fair, the law of distribution says that there will always be poor people. Christ said so as well. For one thing it’s a relative term and another thing is that it’s a dynamic process, some people lift themselves to be richer, and some drop into poverty. There are many winners and losers each day on the financial markets alone.
I believe the only fair way to look at it is to compare the poorest people we have today with the poorest of say, 50 years ago. And say we say 80% are poor. Who are the better off?
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