Pope Warns Against New Colonialism: Corporations, Loan Agencies, and Austerity Measures That Hurt Poor

[zz912]

Wrong.

they are probably poor because of globalization and multi-nationals.

Nice try, but no.

The vast bulk the poorest people in the world live in China, India and parts of Africa. All those places were subject to socialism or other form of totalitarianism, which caused abject poverty and misery, as it always does.

Funny enough, those “evil” transnational corporations who despise with such ferocity have actually lifted up the living conditions for hundreds of millions of people in China and India.

Your view of the world is 180 degrees out of phase with reality.

 

[zz912]

Thanks for the clarification. I’ll run right over and let him know. I’m sure the news will make his day.

He actually should be thankful. I’ve suffered through job loss. It stinks and is not fun at all.

But it does NOT come close to the misery that the true poor in the world suffer under. Your friend has a roof over his head, food on the table, lights, electricity, and other amenities that the true poor don’t even dream of having.

 

[triumphguy]

What make you think the 1% is guilty of any those things? Simply because they have wealth?

It’s not the because, it’s the how.

There are some wonderful examples of rich people: Peter Lynch (of the Magellan Fund), Sir John Templeton, Warren Buffet.

And then there’s the others.

 

[triumphguy]

Nice try, but no.

The vast bulk the poorest people in the world live in China, India and parts of Africa. All those places were subject to socialism or other form of totalitarianism, which caused abject poverty and misery, as it always does.

Funny enough, those “evil” transnational corporations who despise with such ferocity have actually lifted up the living conditions for hundreds of millions of people in China and India.

Your view of the world is 180 degrees out of phase with reality.

The poorest poor are so because of exploitation. They have been displaced or lost their way of life through greed.

Whether in China, India or Sub-Saharan Africa the people were exploited by colonial powers.

From the end of the 19th century sub-Saharan Africa suffered around 60 years of colonial plunder and as a result, “on a continent of household-based agrarian economies with very limited long-distance trade, colonialism imposed cash-crop production for export, and mineral extraction, with manufacturing supposed to come later”.

The relative underdevelopment of the African economy can therefore be traced to a number of factors. As a result of colonialism, many of its national economies became virtual monoculture (mineral or commodity) exporters. They are also dependent on imports for equipment, capital goods, the bulk of their consumer goods, know-how and technology. By the 1980s only five countries (Benin, Sierra Leone, Morocco, Senegal and Zimbabwe) had diversified export bases.3

isj.org.uk/africa-rising/

Where there was socialism it was as a response to the conditions set by colonialism.

China and India were also shaped by colonialism, and globalization.

Marxism was not the right answer. In many ways it was just as devastating.

 

[zz912]

The poorest poor are so because of exploitation. They have been displaced or lost their way of life through greed.

Whether in China, India or Sub-Saharan Africa the people were exploited by colonial powers.

Where there was socialism it was as a response to the conditions set by colonialism.

China and India were also shaped by colonialism, and globalization.

Marxism was not the right answer. In many ways it was just as devastating.

Almost a century later, and still blaming colonialism instead of socialism/totalitarianism. And China was never a colony, but the one place that did stay under British rule (Hong Kong) showed IMMENSE prosperity and advancement. Funny how that worked out, isn’t it? If your theory were true, then Hong Kong should still be 3rd world status today…

 

[triumphguy]

Almost a century later, and still blaming colonialism instead of socialism/totalitarianism. And China was never a colony, but the one place that did stay under British rule (Hong Kong) showed IMMENSE prosperity and advancement. Funny how that worked out, isn’t it? If your theory were true, then Hong Kong should still be 3rd world status today…

It’s funny how many people never actually read the full post of the person they are responding too.

Read my full post please.

BTW read up on the Opium Wars and you will see that colonialist practices severely affected China.

They started when Britain forced China to accept opium grown in India in order to balance it’s trade deficit with China. The resulting numbers of opium addicts in China alarmed the country which tried to block the trade. Britain used its Navy to force them into submission. Britain forced China to open five ports and give Hong Kong to them.

As a result of the Second Opium War the British burned down the Chinese Emperor’s palaces, and enforced the opium trade and forced upon China the right to take indentured “coolies” to the US. They also took Kowloon.

So Britain forced the drug trade and the slave trade on China.

You Americans fought over taxes, imagine how revolted the Chinese would have been by western economic practices.

 

[Thomas_White]

I’m not the one who’ll be judging which individuals are responsible for the suppression of the poor. Or is the Pope condemning anyone, for that matter? .

No, or not necessarily. If Pope Francis is specifically condemning anything in particular, it is the cultural paradigm that began to emerge at the end of the scholastic period and the beginning of the Enlightment in the early 1500’s as it concerns the philosophical development of what the Church for centuries has termed “modernism”. Pope Francis outlines this at the beginning of Chapter Three (paragraph 175 and what follows) of Laudato Si’. It is complex.

If there is a demon here, it is in our era the scientific method, not in itself but in the way it has evolved from a tool of science to a way of life–a cultural paradigm–where both human nature and nature are viewed as objects subject to exploitation and manipulation by wealth and power. Moral relativism is directly related to and evolved from the categories of this philosophical development, as does secularism.

Those who would carry on about socialism and its evils just do not understand the encyclical or its teaching, which is theological and absolutely not political. What Pope Francis is advocating is nothing less than traditional Catholicism as it was before the modern era. It simply cannot be understood when viewed through the prism of a contemporary political ideology.

 

[anthony022071]

That’s a very offensive and inaccurate statement to make. :nope:

Its true. Its a matter of common observation.

 

[anthony022071]

Can you provide the data on this lack of initiative? How do you measure lack of initiative?

Its a matter of ordinary observation. I don’t measure lack of initiative. I’m talking about lack of initiative with regard to cultivating the land and producing things for sale and setting up markets and improving living conditions. I’m not making a moral judgement against societies that lack the initiative to do these things,but it is obvious that there are such societies.

 

[triumphguy]

Its a matter of ordinary observation. I don’t measure lack of initiative. I’m talking about lack of initiative with regard to cultivating the land and producing things for sale and setting up markets and improving living conditions. I’m not making a moral judgement against societies that lack the initiative to do these things,but it is obvious that there are such societies.

Name them and show that their society as it is today is not a result of meddling by outside/world powers.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Its a matter of ordinary observation.

In other words you have no data.

I don’t measure lack of initiative.

In other words, you are just speculating that you have no real idea what you are talking about.

I’m talking about lack of initiative with regard to cultivating the land and producing things for sale and setting up markets and improving living conditions. I’m not making a moral judgement against societies that lack the initiative to do these things,but it is obvious that there are such societies.

Since you are not concerned enough to actually care about the truth it really doesn’t matter what you are talking about does it?

 

[utah_rose]

I agree with him, far too many people, especially in the US, are worshiping money as their ‘god’, they may not realize that or admit to it, but that is their main concern on a daily basis, all our huge corporations, no matter how much they make, its never enough, they always want MORE, MORE. Greed is running rampant here, it has been for a long time now, people are so concerned with driving the latest greatest cars, living in HUGE homes, having all kinds of pricey electronic devices.

I really think when Jesus comes back, hes not going to be too happy with all this materialism, consumerism, I think he will throw a wrench into their world and see how they react.

I should mention, I work as a corporate rep for a large gas station/convenience store chain, I see first hand, how all this works, Im constantly amazed how much people worship the almighty $$. Do we really need 250 different varieties of soda, chips, gum, cigarettes, etc etc? LOL Do we really need umpteen different mega stores open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Heck, now with the internet, people can shop ANYTIME, day or night, as easy as typing in your credit card number, companies are constantly coming up with ideas so people can get rid of their money quicker.

Not too long ago, when a soda company introduced a new drink, it was a HUGE deal, it could make or break the company…nowadays, they all introduce new flavors, varieties about every 6 months…?? They regularly re-organize the entire section to accommodate this, I can honestly say, people will buy almost anything you put in front of their faces. LOL.

Not to mention, all the people that going to serious debt, just so they can be seen driving the latest cars, there are many lots out there, catering to people who have bad credit, they are charging these people up to 28% interest!!! The bad thing is, they are doing great, people are buying left and right??? Im sorry, but 28% is nothing but greed, they could probably get a better deal borrowing money from the mafia!

Didnt Jesus instruct us to loan money to people most likely NOT to pay it back instead of people who will pay it back? I dont think many people are obeying this, even financial groups that claim to be christian based or claim to care about people.

I think a lot of this is targeted toward teenagers and 20 year old somethings. There are those of us, mostly older and retired that have never done this and don’t fall for a lot if these things. Yes it’s a shame for car dealers with high interest, but you must remember too that some people are to blame for going into debt and having bad credit so these businesses thrive!

They’ve never been taught to go without until they have the money to purchase. For about 20 years, we survive with one car. When I worked, I travelled back and forth on buses or light rail. Inconvenient sometimes, but sure saved on gas and maintenance and insurance let alone car payments.

And you’d find many of us do help other people out financially, even though we won’t get paid back. At present we are helping out a homeless friend for about 6 months.

It mostly depends on how you were raised. Our daughter was able to live independently when going through a nasty divorce because she had the initiative to join the service and learn a trade. She never got a car as a gift either.

So, I’m upset that Pope Francis resorts to generalize capitalism, especially because our government has been the worst offender with its bloated budget to pay Congress and all the agencies people work for. With businesses taking these over you’d see budgets cut, pay slashed and better results. Sure hope that Pope Francis takes this on when he visits and realize that U.S. Catholics contribute a lot to the Vatican, Church and Church agencies. All because we worked for capitalists.

 

[philipl]

That we Catholics live the gospel.

which I do every single day.

 

[stinkcat_14]

which I do every single day.

Then there is one more thing you need to do.

 

[lynnvinc]

Or the 85 richest people who have more wealth than 3,500,000,000 of the world’s poorest people.

[Oxfam: 85 richest people as wealthy as poorest half of the world | Davos | The Guardian
](Oxfam: 85 richest people as wealthy as poorest half of the world)

And I agree with you that anti-life agendas are forced upon peoples when they seek help from the World Bank.

I would imagine the Pope would hold both these groups to task, wouldn’t you?

Speaking of the devil…

Read this in THE HINDU (newspaper) about the World Bank 2015 Report, “Mind, Society and Behaviour” (which blames the poor for their poverty…with no mention of the rich and their irresponsible behavior that led to things such as the 2008 collapse):

“Teaching the Poor to Behave” at thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/teaching-the-poor-to-behave/article7368130.ece

 

[Tsuwano]

Our Holy Father is vaguely conspiratorial in his rhetoric denouncing “loan agencies” and “free trade”. His use of scare quotes is even more bizarre. The language is socialistic and indefensible. I just don’t understand how cardinals who elected two amazing Popes have elected a man sympathetic to the causes of the most destructive forces of the past 100 years, namely atheistic communism.

Maybe the Holy Spirit had something to do with it.

 

[Tsuwano]

Justice in the world? There is no justice in this world. There never has been. Someone will always have more than someone else and that someone will always hate the one who has more. People will always kill one another then blame others or society for causing them to kill. This is Satan’s realm and the only justice we are ever going to see is that doled out by Jesus at the end.

Of course there is justice in the world. There is also injustice and that can’t be ignored, but to absolve ourselves of responsibility for our world and the way we treat others by saying that justice or love or beauty or goodness is impossible to find in this world is to view the world without love. We are called to be a light for the world, the salt of the Earth, a city on a hill! If we are called to be these things by God, then it stands to reason that it is possible to be these things. It is possible to find justice in the world because the world belongs to God.

 

[anthony022071]

Name them and show that their society as it is today is not a result of meddling by outside/world powers.

What do you mean exactly? I was talking about the poverty and lack of economic development of some societies,not about whether those societies have been affected by outside powers. There were both good and bad results of European interference. The primitive societies of Africa,the America,and Asia were economically undeveloped before the Europeans arrived. They were undeveloped because they were primitive and uncivilized. They lived close to nature and provided for themselves directly from the land and the water. If you are going to deny that some societies lack initiative for development,you may as well deny that there are no societies that are primitive and uncivilized. There are uncivilized societies in the United States - such as in ghettos and rural parts of the South - where the people are not motivated to improve their living condition.

 

[anthony022071]

In other words you have no data.

What kind of data do you want? Human initiative is not something that can be measured with statistics. Nor can you disprove my view with statistics.

In other words, you are just speculating that you have no real idea what you are talking about.

No. I drew a conclusion from observation. A society in which people are not motivated to cultivate markets will not attain prosperity.

Since you are not concerned enough to actually care about the truth it really doesn’t matter what you are talking about does it?

I care about truth more than anything else.

 

[anthony022071]

In other words you have no data.

What kind of data do you want? Human initiative is not something that can be measured with statistics.

In other words, you are just speculating that you have no real idea what you are talking about

.

No. I drew a conclusion from observation. A society in which people are not motivated to cultivate markets will not attain prosperity.

Since you are not concerned enough to actually care about the truth it really doesn’t matter what you are talking about does it?

I care about truth more than anything else.