Pope Warns Against New Colonialism: Corporations, Loan Agencies, and Austerity Measures That Hurt Poor

[lynnvinc]

The Pope is only preaching traditional Christian and therefore Catholic views on economics. As a Catholic and a socialist I tire of Catholics wedded to Protestant economic thinking. Christian communities need to share wealth as did Jesus and his followers if you read the Gospels. The sharing of loaves and fishes is Jesus teaching us to do likewise. The instruction to help the poor, the needy, the homeless and the less fortunate is not a suggestion but stands at the heart of the Gospels and Jesus teaching of the nature of The Kingdom of God. Pope Francis’ views on economics are Old Catholic views rather than the Capitalist Protestant views of his critics. I, as a Catholic socialist, make no apologies for following this Pope and Christ’s instructions. Remember my comrades it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a Rich Capitalist to get into Heaven. Who said that ? Not Marx, but Jesus whom we are as Christians obliged to follow.

Good post!

However, considering that the rich in Jesus’s day were poor by our standards today, we have to revise that to “It is more difficult for the average American to get into Heaven than for an elephant to pass through the eye of a needle.”

One reason I converted from Protestantism to Catholicism – it just seemed to be more Christian, closer to the teachings of Jesus. They say that the topic of the poor is raised in the Gospel more often than any other topic.

Might be good to first read the Gospel (the 4 books, plus Acts where their “caring & sharing” mode is put into practice), then read Laudato Si.

 

[lynnvinc]

By what measure have “those people” always lived in poverty? This is a convenient rewrite of history to suit a narrative.

In 1970, Jorge Borgoglio, now Pope Francis, began his work as a Jesuit missionary in Buenos Aires. In the long tradition of the Jesuits in South America, his work was among the very poor. The Spanish invaders had for centuries marginalized the indigenous people of Argentina, removing them from their native lands while exploiting both those lands and their peoples, using them to enhance the development of their market economy. The subjugated native people were virtually excluded from participation in the new European-style economy and society. Having been chased from their native lands, large numbers of people in time migrated to the growing urban areas where they live in grinding poverty. These were the circumstances that first brought the Jesuit missionaries to Argentina, and these many centuries later those circumstances still exist as the desperately poor await the trickle down that never arrives.

In his Latin American speech deploring the New Colonialism imposed by corporations, loan agencies and austerity measures, for whom would you imagine Pope Francis, the former Jesuit missionary from Buenos Aires, was speaking?

I’ll give you an example, which I used in my course on Social Inequality. In a docu I used it shows how big multinational grain corps (headquartered in Chicago) went into Brazil and had middlemen strong-arm small farmers off their lands (they were poor, but they had a good nutritious diet from the lands) to grow soy using mechanized methods and very few laborers. The upshot was those now landless farmers lived on the side of the roads and migrated to the cities, where most had difficulties in finding work and their diets and health deteriorated greatly.

Meanwhile back on the farm, the multinational fed a lot of the soy to chickens, that were sold to the rich in their country and to 1st world nations…so we all could get heart attacks from our gluttony.

As an anthropologist in touch with anthropologists and studies of tribal and 3rd world peoples around the world, I can say that story is multiplied thousands of times over.

Then there are the multinational fossil fuel and mineral corps that go in and destroy the subsistence lands of tribals and peasants (who don’t even use hardly any of those resources).

Now they are coming after middle class people in first world nations – destroying their environments, polluting their air, water, and soil. We got a notice a couple of months ago they will be fracking under our home in an urban residential area that includes 2 elementary schools – which will most likely cause air pollution and water pollution, and lower our property value, and also carries the small but real risk of explosion.

Because people do not have any rights at all in America – only big corps have them – there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We’ll fight, but the outcome is pretty much assured in favor of the fracking company. Since we’ve reduced our GHG emissions and pollution by over 60% below our 1990 emissions, I’m thinking this just isn’t fair.

 

[Thomas_White]

Its not a rewrite of anything. Its only in recent history that Americans and other Western civilization have developed a real middle class. The plain simple measurable fact is the 1%er are not responsible for poverty in those countries. Their corrupt government is the complete reason.

Of course the 1% did not cause the poverty in South America that originated five-hundred years ago at the beginning of the colonial era, and a plain and simple measurable fact (whatever that might be) is hardy necessary to prove that events of 2015 didn’t cause those beginning in the year 1515. And nobody has said they did. This sort of defensive reaction to Laudato Si, while understanable, is nevertheless a misunderstanding that isn’t necessary or helpful in understanding the teachings of the encyclical or in addressing the critical issues it raises.

The difficulties are historical and global and only developed over centuries, and that they are now becoming critical is hardly the fault of any individual. They are the result of strong historical forces, and it will prove extremely difficult for mankind to ever attain control of them. In my view, the reality is that most of us are quite limited as individuals in what we can do to solve the many problems of the world. I’ve tried to understand the difficulties and what might be done, but I certainly don’t blame all the ills of the world on my neighbor who drives a new Lexis. Were it that simple.

 

[Peccavi]

Acts, which describes the events of the early church. Chapters 2 and 4 state that all “the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need… No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had…. There were no needy persons among them. From time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.”
This describes a type of socialism from which many Christian socialists take their lead.
Chapter 5 details how when a church member fails to turn over all his property to the church “he fell down and died,” when his wife later did the same “she fell down… and died… Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.”
As for Heresy. Was Dorothy Day a heretic ? She was a Catholic, a socialist with Anarchist leanings who produced " The Catholic Worker" and is was recognised by Pope John Paul II as “a servant of God” and in 2012 a process of canonization was begun for her. So the modern Papacy has always accepted you can be a Catholic and a Socialist.

 

[triumphguy]

The other side of this coin is if those people have all those things, are they poor?

Have you read the thread?

I was responding to posters who were claiming they WERE poor and lacked initiative.

 

[triumphguy]

Its not a rewrite of anything. Its only in recent history that Americans and other Western civilization have developed a real middle class. The plain simple measurable fact is the 1%er are not responsible for poverty in those countries. Their corrupt government is the complete reason.

In those countries the 1% and the corrupt government are one.

Five Ways that Concentration of Wealth and Power Affects Corruption Risk in Latin America

 

[triumphguy]

Warren Buffett gives money to pro abortion groups.

Well there you go - that leaves the two Christians - the Catholic Peter Lynch and the Protestant Sir John Templeton.

Having money is a responsibility!

 

[lynnvinc]

…So the modern Papacy has always accepted you can be a Catholic and a Socialist.

I agree. I think it is one cannot be a Christian and a capitalist. Even in the middle ages I think it was considered wrong for Christians to lend money at interest.

Of course, the hyper-capitalists of today are lickity-split destroying the earth and its ability to sustain life, so it is much worse today than ever before.

It is true that that communist countries had even a worse environmental record than the capitalist countries; I think that was a matter of materialistic ideologies (communism AND capitalism) coupled with industrialization that has led to our modern fix. The only reason capitalist countries in the past were somewhat better on the environment is that people in so-called democracies, like the U.S., had rights and a voice to oppose the destruction and harm. However, these have now been denied and silenced in the name of earth-destroying hyper-capitalism – they now arrest and imprison peaceful environmentalists who oppose such destruction under terrorism laws, which sends a terrible chilling effect on anyone who thinks about speaking truth to power/wealth – so it seems to me if communism were alive today, then it might not be as bad as the capitalism we now have re destruction of earth’s live-sustaining systems.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Our Holy Father is vaguely conspiratorial in his rhetoric denouncing “loan agencies” and “free trade”. His use of scare quotes is even more bizarre. The language is socialistic and indefensible. I just don’t understand how cardinals who elected two amazing Popes have elected a man sympathetic to the causes of the most destructive forces of the past 100 years, namely atheistic communism.

I agree. It is a disappointment.

We can trust that he will remain faithful with regard to Church doctrine, but he is off the rails on his political views.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Acts, which describes the events of the early church. Chapters 2 and 4 state that all “the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need… No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had…. There were no needy persons among them. From time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.”
This describes a type of socialism from which many Christian socialists take their lead.
Chapter 5 details how when a church member fails to turn over all his property to the church “he fell down and died,” when his wife later did the same “she fell down… and died… Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.”
As for Heresy. Was Dorothy Day a heretic ? She was a Catholic, a socialist with Anarchist leanings who produced " The Catholic Worker" and is was recognised by Pope John Paul II as “a servant of God” and in 2012 a process of canonization was begun for her. So the modern Papacy has always accepted you can be a Catholic and a Socialist.

These were voluntary acts by groups living together. That is totally unrelated to government confiscation and distribution of property by force.

Socialism is backed by violent force.

 

[lynnvinc]

These were voluntary acts by groups living together. That is totally unrelated to government confiscation and distribution of property by force.

Socialism is backed by violent force.

Not necessarily. There are many democratic nations that have chosen a socialistic path…bec they are just more caring and sharing people than those in the U.S.

RE your name with Chesterton…he was also against both capitalism and socialism, and proposed distributism. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism. Something a compassionate nation might consider.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Not necessarily. There are many democratic nations that have chosen a socialistic path…bec they are just more caring and sharing people than those in the U.S.

RE your name with Chesterton…he was also against both capitalism and socialism, and proposed distributism. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism. Something a compassionate nation might consider.

Even in democratic nations 51% of the voters can forcefully confiscate the property of others using the force of government. Actually, Americans give a higher percentage of their incomes to charity than any other nation. We’ve learned that giving it to government does not usually improve the lives of the poor.

Chesterton was right about most things…

 

[stinkcat_14]

Even in democratic nations 51% of the voters can forcefully confiscate the property of others using the force of government. Actually, Americans give a higher percentage of their incomes to charity than any other nation. We’ve learned that giving it to government does not usually improve the lives of the poor.

Chesterton was right about most things…

Is there a nation on earth that does not confiscate?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Is there a nation on earth that does not confiscate?

Not that I’m aware of.

However, I think advocating greater government confiscation of private production is counter productive if our goal is to help the poor.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Not that I’m aware of.

However, I think advocating greater government confiscation of private production is counter productive if our goal is to help the poor.

It depends on what the confiscated loot is used for.

 

[sallybutler]

I agree. It is a disappointment.

We can trust that he will remain faithful with regard to Church doctrine, but he is off the rails on his political views.

Are his views just political or are they not also religious? In the USA, people often blur the lines on other issues, why not economics? After all, how you spend your money is a reflection of your beliefs.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

It is amazing to watch people throw around and vilify the term “socialism.” Social Security, unemployment insurance, public schools, healthcare for retired Americans who have worked their entire lives a.k.a. Medicare are all forms of Socialism.

Is it the fault of the beneficiaries that the government raided the Social Security “lockbox,” that Medicare abuse has run rampant? These programs were intrusted to those charged with protecting these them against people who worship the false gods of money and consumerism.

There are several countries who have similar protections who manage not to succumb to the problems of misuse, misappropriation, and outright theft that our systems do. Why have our systems failed when others succeed? I believe the answers to be greed and lazy apathetic bureaucrats. Again, other countries succeed using these systems where we fail.
No country can last indefinitely under the tyranny of pure capitalism. Anyone who believes this is possible is grasping for just another version of a Utopia. You may be wondering about now if I applaud the rampant moral decay running through the west. I do not.

What I do think is that we need to better understand why we tolerate greed and corruption found in most levels of business and government. How can a world that has within it’s grasp the ability to one day colonize Mars allow the utter exploitation of poor countries and ours, all in the name of a ticker symbol? There is something wrong with this picture.

There is nothing wrong with the desire to provide your family with a nice home, financial security, if that is how you choose to spend your life. There is something wrong with one who builds an empire at the expense of those who toil most of their lives, living in poverty with little hope of providing anything that approaches the basic standard of comfort for them and their families.

Way too many people toil and fight for the basics all their lives, from cradle to grave. It is our duty in my mind as Christians and Catholics to do what we can for these people. Even small things, like buying someone cold a cup of coffee and being kind. Making an effort to drop off gifts or clothing for someone in a nursing home.

I am very grateful to the Holy Father. I feel his example will shine for all to see in the line of Popes. Earth is blessed to have him, a message of hope during a time of global war and moral abdication.

Thanks to capitalism and globalization nearly 2 billion people have been lifted out of extreme poverty over the past 25 years. The pope is attacking this system. It makes no sense.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Are his views just political or are they not also religious? In the USA, people often blur the lines on other issues, why not economics? After all, how you spend your money is a reflection of your beliefs.

Agreed, but that is an individual decision. Citizens of the USA gives more to charity on a percentage per capita basis than any other nation.

His economic opinions, if implemented, would hurt poor people.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Thanks to capitalism and globalization nearly 2 billion people have been lifted out of extreme poverty over the past 25 years. The pope is attacking this system. It makes no sense.

Actually, I don’t see the pope attacking capitalism, but merely the excesses of capitalism. Capitalism does a lot of good things, but it is far from perfect, therefore there are plenty of places where it can be criticized. For example, think of Lehman Brothers. Lehman would still be here today if they weren’t greedy. If they were more prudent fewer people would have been harmed by them.

 

[Peccavi]

Jesus talks more about the Kingdom of God than he does about any other topic during his Ministry. There is a confusion among Christians about the exact location of this Kingdom. Some think the Kingdom of God is among us - in other words in our collective humanity; others that it is within us as individuals outside collective humanity. It all hinges on how you translate the original Biblical Greek word ἐντος which can mean either “inside” or “among”.
It does not mean “outside” the flesh or the world ie. other worldly. So given this how would the Kingdom of God be different from our World and for those who say we cannot tell, we must try, because as it Jesus tells us in Matthew 6; 33 “But seek ye first the kingdom of God…”