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Tom317
Guest
The Pope is the chief pastor of the entire Church! There is one Vicar of Christ, that is the Pope! Those are fundamental truths of the faith.
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estesbob
Guest
I liked this part for the pure irony of it:
Giuliani took a different approach in 1996, when he criticized Pope John Paul II for attacking then-President Bill Clinton’s decision to veto a ban on late-term abortion. Giuliani said the pope’s “direct involvement in politics is not a good idea,** because I think it confuses people.”
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His receiving communion and calling himslef a Catholic is confusing to people as it goes against 2,000 years of teachings of the Church. It is even more confusing to people when it appears that he and other “Catholic” politicians do this with no neagtive consequences.
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estesbob
Guest
Funny you should say thay-I seem to recall you invoking the Pope when attcaking the US involvement in Iraq.
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frommi
Guest
Wrong again…Vicar of Peter applies only to the pope…Vicar of Christ is applied to all bishops.
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frommi
Guest
I read your post…you were equating ‘strong’ stance with ‘attention-seeking’ stance.
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Tom317
Guest
Honestly, I think it sends the message that the Church does not really believe the faith. According to the faith, mortal sins can lead us to hell, and if that is true, then the Church should be doing everything it possibly can to help people avoid going to hell. Yet, it really never does much of anything regarding the constant scandal of public people sinning and then laughing in the face of the Church, which simply leaves lay Catholics with the feeling that the Church must not take its own teachings very seriously.
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Tom317
Guest
No, attention seeking never even entered my mind, that came from your brain cells.
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Tom317
Guest
Wrong! The Pope is the one and only Vicar of Christ who is head on the entire universal Church! During different times in the history of the Church the Pope was also known as the Vicar of Peter, yet he has always been the Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire Church and its chief pastor.
Bishops are known as Vicar of Christ only within their own diocese and not over the entire Church as the Pope is.
The Pope is the chief Pastor of every Catholic.
Go here:
newadvent.org/cathen/15403b.htm
and here:
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/882.htm
and here:
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/936.htm
and here:
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1560.htm
Please, study more.
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estesbob
Guest
Ah the old “Hearts and Minds” argument. Under this scenario we must accept abortion until the “hearts and minds” of the people are changed. And since this change has not occured it is OK to vote for Pro-abortion politicans -in fact we should not even criticize them and God forbid ask them to follow the teachings of the Church.
The exact same argument was used to justify the continuation of slavery. It was embraced by the “gradualists” who ,altough they claimed to abhor slavery, believed that we should gradually let it die out as the “hearts and minds” of the people changed. It was a specious argument then and it is a specious argument now.
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rlg94086
Guest
It is the approved and preferred argument for anyone not wanting to take action on something - it should be more accurately phrased “live and let die.”
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Tom317
Guest
Yes, and is this a direct threat?
““I’ve always thought also that those bishops and archbishops who for decades hid pederasts and are now being protected by the Vatican should be indicted,” he said.”
Isn’t he saying, back off or we will indict?
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frommi
Guest
Interesting…then why does the prayer at the funeral of the pope specifically say “name vicar of peter”.
You’re just not right on this one…
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frommi
Guest
You are misunderstanding what I’m saying…I’m simply saying, as I have often said, that it seems reasonable that someone could balk at criminalizing abortion, but still work in a very pro-life way to end the tragedy of abortion. Because we all know that making it illegal is not going to mean no woman ever tries to have one…and there is little evidence that throwing doctors and women in jail would make this situation better.
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rlg94086
Guest
Couldn’t someone balk at any crime and use the same reasoning?
Criminalizing theft, murder and arson hasn’t stopped theft, murder and arson. Why do we criminalize them? Rather than throwing the perps in jail, we should just work on winning their “hearts and minds.” If we just educate people so they understand what they are doing is wrong, we can someday end theft, murder and arson.
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Tom317
Guest
So, the Catechism is wrong? The Church is wrong? The Catholic encyclopedia is wrong?
Those links are not from me, they contain the formal statements of the Church.
*To be Catholic is to hold that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, with divine authority to lead and teach all humanity.
The Latin motto is, Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia. As Peter, so the Church.*
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GreenJeans
Guest
One probably does have to accept abortion until hearts and minds are changed. The voters send people to legislatures who reflect their hearts and minds.
Slavery couldn’t be changed until there were sufficient hearts and minds in the anti-slavery camp.
Note the progress gays have made as they have won over the hearts and minds.
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Adonis33
Guest
The fact that rape is illegal has net stopped the rapes from occuring. Should we then legalize it?
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*It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that’s pretty important.
Martin Luther King, Jr. *
*If we change the laws - at least it will greatly decrease the number of abortions - thus saving many, many lives.
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Adonis33
Guest
It took a war to end slavory.
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mary_bobo
Guest
Here again, I do not agree. They have forced it down the throats of politicians and being a small group, they have threatened politicians with marches, etc. Either you are for rights for a group that is different than what others have, or you do not.
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