Pope's meeting with Kim Davis not an endorsement, Vatican says

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JimmyG88 said:
I can see her becoming a heroine to some. But I don’t see her actions as heroic. She is imposing moral standards on people while refusing the same moral framework herself. She is not a martyr. A martyr would have died in jail for her beliefs. I wonder did her parents convert or did she leave the church and embrace a set of beliefs that fitted her own disorganised lifestyle? As a servant of the state surely she should do her job or resign and continue her struggle without attempting to serve two Masters
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I agree. There is nothing heroic about what she’s done. She wants to be County Clerk, but distance herself from SSM, and the County Clerk really cannot do that. I agree that she should resign her post.

I do not know for sure, but I was under the impression that she left the Catholic Church to join the church of one of her husbands. Like I said, I am not sure. It is IIRC, and sometimes I don’t.

Those Victorians were up to no good much of the time. Still, I love many of the books they wrote.🙂
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I agree. There is nothing heroic about what she’s done. She wants to be County Clerk, but distance herself from SSM, and the County Clerk really cannot do that. I agree that she should resign her post.

I do not know for sure, but I was under the impression that she left the Catholic Church to join the church of one of her husbands. Like I said, I am not sure. It is IIRC, and sometimes I don’t.

Those Victorians were up to no good much of the time. Still, I love many of the books they wrote.🙂
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Well there are certainly a lot of ‘fallen’ women in them and some equally odd men, I’m not a fan of this individual at all and if I thought she had left the church I would be even more puzzled by the number of Cathoilc admirers she has amassed. Especially on these pages where normally her own personal behaviours would have been seen as giving scandal. I have to say I’m not sure she is the best person in the world to be in charge of ANY marriage licences given her own track record
 
Lily_Bernans said:
There is nothing heroic about what she’s done.
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She is far more the hero than those agitating for “same sex marriage” not to mention those excusing the absurdity of that redefinition of marriage.

Perhaps it would have been more romantic if she had died in a hail of gunfire or been crucified on a cross but she has taken a stand in opposition to the mob and that takes some courage.
 
PRmerger said:
This is a good example.

He should have done what Kim Davis did: say “I won’t be part of this crucifixion. I won’t sanction it. It’s against my beliefs to kill an innocent man”.
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If Pontius Pilate had said that, there would have been no crucifixion, right?
 
JimmyG88 said:
I wasn’t sure. I did say in an earlier posting. But her position isn’t one of making policy is it? Or is it? Again not sure
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I don’t think she can make any policy, she just has to swear to follow the policies in place.
 
SMH_2015 said:
Yet, what of the remarks the Pope is supposed to have made on the plane back home? That “government officials” should be allowed to be “conscientious objectors”…?

Was that also a lie? Just wondering. Seriously.
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It was a question of law. She was refusing to issue any marriage licenses. She could object as a matter of conscience, but federal law prevented her from doing what she did and remain in office.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
She is far more the hero than those agitating for “same sex marriage” not to mention those excusing the absurdity of that redefinition of marriage.

Perhaps it would have been more romantic if she had died in a hail of gunfire or been crucified on a cross but she has taken a stand in opposition to the mob and that takes some courage.
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I think she, herself, is advocating for SSM by issuing licenses under her authority - and approval - to SS couples. To me, that’s no heroine by any stretch of the imagination.

I don’t think anyone wants to see her killed! Doesn’t matter if we agree with her or not. She is a child of God. I do not agree with her lifestyle or actions regarding her position on SSM, but I wish her no harm at all.

I’m sure the Holy Father was telling the truth when he said he believes government workers have the right to conscientious objection. What we don’t know is whether he believes they should leave their job if they find they cannot do it, or if in doing it, they are giving tacit approval to something contrary to Church teaching or their religious beliefs. And I don’t expect the Holy Father to clear it up. He doesn’t want pulled into this, and I support him in that. Shame on Terry Moran for trying to pull him in on the plane.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I don’t think she can make any policy, she just has to swear to follow the policies in place.
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So her ‘stand’ is to collect a salary and not do the job. And now she isn’t campaigning just silently (tacitly) endorsing the policy she swore she would uphold. Surely some religious group would cover her pay while she became a full time campaigner. That at least would be honest. I would hope however our church didn’t as endorsing her chaotic personal life is not really in our traditions
 
JimmyG88 said:
So her ‘stand’ is to collect a salary and not do the job. And now she isn’t campaigning just silently (tacitly) endorsing the policy she swore she would uphold. Surely some religious group would cover her pay while she became a full time campaigner. That at least would be honest. I would hope however our church didn’t as endorsing her chaotic personal life is not really in our traditions
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I agree, Jimmy, I totally agree.
 
I had to do a bit of reading about Kim. The Washington Post said her parents are ‘lifelong Catholics’ which makes her official position in the eyes of the church an apostate I think (I may be wrong).
 
JimmyG88 said:
I had to do a bit of reading about Kim. The Washington Post said her parents are ‘lifelong Catholics’ which makes her official position in the eyes of the church an apostate I think (I may be wrong).
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An apostate is someone who abandons his or her religious beliefs. If Davis were baptized and raised a Catholic, then yes, she would be guilty of apostasy. I don’t think she would be if she had not been raised a Catholic, if her parents had not taken her to Mass, etc., but I can’t see that if they are lifelong Catholics.

Note: I’m not judging Mrs. Davis’ religious beliefs. She has a right to join any church she wishes, and I realize that.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I think she, herself, is advocating for SSM by issuing licenses under her authority - and approval - to SS couples. To me, that’s no heroine by any stretch of the imagination.
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I have no idea where you are getting your information but what I understand is that she was thrown in jail for refusing to issue “SSM” licenses.
I’m sure the Holy Father was telling the truth when he said he believes government workers have the right to conscientious objection. What we don’t know is whether he believes they should leave their job if they find they cannot do it, or if in doing it, they are giving tacit approval to something contrary to Church teaching or their religious beliefs. And I don’t expect the Holy Father to clear it up. He doesn’t want pulled into this, and I support him in that. Shame on Terry Moran for trying to pull him in on the plane.
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Homosexual advocates seem bent on preseting this woman as as “worker” holding a “job” but, as I pointed out earlier, she is, in fact, an elected official. But even if she were merely worker holding a job, it does not follow that her job is to do whatever five idiots on the supreme court demand of her. Pope Francis was clear enough and others have offered similar arguments against the one-sided demands for bliind servitude:

breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/08/legal-scholars-urge-disobedience-to-gay-marriage-ruling/
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I have no idea where you are getting your information but what I understand is that she was thrown in jail for refusing to issue “SSM” licenses.

Homosexual advocates seem bent on preseting this woman as as “worker” holding a “job” but, as I pointed out earlier, she is, in fact, an elected official. But even if she were merely worker holding a job, it does not follow that her job is to do whatever five idiots on the supreme court demand of her. Pope Francis was clear enough and others have offered similar arguments against the one-sided demands for bliind servitude:

breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/08/legal-scholars-urge-disobedience-to-gay-marriage-ruling/
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I don’t believe I or others have been ‘homosexual advocates’ as you put it. What the recent discussion has focused on is her ‘hero’ status her status as a ‘martyr’ her willingness to accept elected office in a role she cannot fulfil her (possible) status as an apostate and her own moral shortcomings. In effect she (even if she were ((still)) a catholic) would have to regularise her own condition. She might better serve God by doing that. Her own shortcomings hardly make her the best candidate for handing out licences to good Catholics let alone gays
 
JimmyG88 said:
I don’t believe I or others have been ‘homosexual advocates’ as you put it. What the recent discussion has focused on is her ‘hero’ status her status as a ‘martyr’ her willingness to accept elected office in a role she cannot fulfil her (possible) status as an apostate and her own moral shortcomings. In effect she (even if she were ((still)) a catholic) would have to regularise her own condition. She might better serve God by doing that. Her own shortcomings hardly make her the best candidate for handing out licences to good Catholics let alone gays
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No, she does not need to “regularize” her condition I order to be a hero. She need only show more courage than the cowards who join the “ssm” mob.

More importantly, the various arguments against her heroism are strewn with factual misrepresentations such as that she is a “worker” not doing her “job”. She is an elected official. But even mere employees are not required to be instruments of injustice. The only workers not doing their jobs are the five sc judges who invented a right to “ssm”.
 
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