Pope's speech to US Congress [full text] [CC]

[Peccavi]

It is time for US Catholics begin a dialogue with the rest of Catholicism outside the US. Many of us have different emphasis than US Catholics do. One of my best friends, a much more devout Catholic than I am, is also Gay and he see no contradiction in being Gay and Catholic. In my own case I am divorced. Both my children have abandoned the Catholic faith over child abuse cover-ups. However, Pope Francis gives us up he can salvage the European Church by returning to traditional early Christian concerns with the poor, the marginalise and the outcasts of society in the footsteps of Jesus. I love the great Words of Mary in the Magnificat
" My soul doth magnify the Lord : and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
For he hath regarded : the lowliness of his handmaiden.
For behold, from henceforth : all generations shall call me blessed.
For he that is mighty hath magnified me : and holy is his Name.
And his mercy is on them that fear him : throughout all generations.
He hath shewed strength with his arm : he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He hath put down the mighty from their seat : and hath exalted the humble and meek.
He hath filled the hungry with good things : and the rich he hath sent empty away.
He remembering his mercy hath holpen his servant Israel : as he promised to our forefathers, Abraham and his seed for ever. " What better indication of God’s Will than this ?

 

[Thomas_White]

And Congress already knows the position of the Church on capital punishment. And I’m quite certain they were aware of Papa Francis’s position on immigration and climate change as well. So why be explicit on the latter two, but be vague on the former?

This was your perception. I understood very well what respect for life in all its stages meant, and I would would think Congress did as well.

 

[JackyB]

And Congress already knows the position of the Church on capital punishment. And I’m quite certain they were aware of Papa Francis’s position on immigration and climate change as well. So why be explicit on the latter two, but be vague on the former? The mere fact that Congress being aware of the Church’s position on abortion isn’t the reason. And if it was to transcend politics, why be explicit on some issue but not others?

I admit, I don’t get why he used the tactic he did. It doesn’t make sense to me to have different emphases on issues.

I’m with you on this, I felt empty after reading the speech, although I’m sure it pleased many.

 

[TCEL]

I’m a Catholic Review subscriber. I also teach RE to middle schoolers so I frequently scour various Catholic resources for relevant and timely info. And yes, I do put on CNN from time and I also subscribe to the NY Times and my local paper. So my perceptions are not solely main stream media. You must admit that even the Catholic media is on fire with Pope Francis. Pope Benedict was the green pope, laying the groundwork for climate change initiatives that are aligned with the church’s mission on protecting life. And he put climate change on par with abortion when it comes to life issues. I can and do acknowledge that his work in the name of God was exceptional. But he did not have the same appeal as Pope Francis. Francis is touching the hearts of Catholics and non Catholics alike. It feels like Pentecost in a way.

A lot of the Catholic media are faithful Catholics, so I would count on their support of Pope Francis, just as they supported Pope Benedict. I know Pope Benedict laid groundwork for Pope Francis. I think he thought that dialogue about respecting the earth was a hopeful outlet for dialoguing about natural law and respect for man, and ultimately God. I would be interested in reading where he thinks climate change is equal to abortion, for my own research purposes.

I recently took a seminar about spiritual gifts. According to this seminar, some spiritual gifts simply do have more mass appeal. Perception is one of the gifts, as are giving and service. I personally think perception was Pope Benedict’s strength, and giving and service are Pope Francis’ strength. Interestingly, perception is a less common gift, but giving and service are more common. Pope Francis is very much about the common man.

If this a new Pentecost, then Hallelujah! I hope my in-laws see it that way. My husband was raised Baptist and became Catholic several years ago, and he cringes when he sees what’s in the media.

 

[Thomas_White]

A lot of the Catholic media are faithful Catholics, so I would count on their support of Pope Francis, just as they supported Pope Benedict. I know Pope Benedict laid groundwork for Pope Francis. I think he thought that dialogue about respecting the earth was a hopeful outlet for dialoguing about natural law and respect for man, and ultimately God. I would be interested in reading where he thinks climate change is equal to abortion, for my own research purposes.

I recently took a seminar about spiritual gifts. According to this seminar, some spiritual gifts simply do have more mass appeal. Perception is one of the gifts, as are giving and service. I personally think perception was Pope Benedict’s strength, and giving and service are Pope Francis’ strength. Interestingly, perception is a less common gift, but giving and service are more common. Pope Francis is very much about the common man.

If this a new Pentecost, then Hallelujah! I hope my in-laws see it that way. My husband was raised Baptist and became Catholic several years ago, and he cringes when he sees what’s in the media.

Pope Francis’s specialty during his Jesuit formation has been said by his biographer to have been spirituality rather than theology. And I think his approach, beginning with his years working with the poor of Buenas Aires as a Jesuit missionary, has been more pastoral than doctrinal. It seems pretty clear this remains his perspective. I don’t believe it was a chance occurrence that Pope John Paul II went outside the usual line of progression when he approved the appointment of the future pope as the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, the largest diocese in Argingina. The future Pope Francis would have the enthusiastic support of then-Cardinal Joseph Ratziner and this support continued when Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI.

I think ‘conservate’ Catholics will have to come to terms with the fact that their perspective has not actually been that of the Church nor is it its future direction.

 

[Suudy]

I think ‘conservate’ Catholics will have to come to terms with the fact that their perspective has not actually been that of the Church nor is it its future direction.

What is the perspective of " ‘conservate’ Catholics"?

 

[Path_Finder]

bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34357640

Pope Francis’s visit to the United States has been marked in an unexpected way by some Americans.

From Florida to New York and Pennsylvania dog owners have been dressing their pets in canine papal outfits with the hashtag #popedog on Instagram.

“Everyone loves cute puppies, and everyone loves Pope Francis,” said John Scorr from Brooklyn, who dressed three-year-old Puggle Giles in full papal regalia (minus the staff).

Pope Dogs, I could almost think this is sacrilege but I guess it is not, I’m not sure what one would make of this. Pictures at the website.

 

[Thomas_White]

What is the perspective of " ‘conservate’ Catholics"?

I would say a focus on abortion rather than accepting that the teaching of respect for life at all its stages includes a condemnation of abortion. When this narrow view results in criticism of Pope Francis, I would say this is a conservative perspective and that this perspective fails to recognize that the teachings of the Church transcend partisan politics.

 

[Suudy]

I would say a focus on abortion rather than accepting that the teaching for respect for life at all its stages includes a condemnation of abortion.

Name a single pro-life advocate that is not “accepting that the teaching for respect for life at all its stages”. Just one will do.

When this narrow view results in criticism of Pope Francis, I would say this is a conservative perspective and that this perspective fails to recognize that the teachings of the Church transcend partisan politics.

That would be the case if someone actually held that narrow view. But of course, there aren’t any that do. At least none that I can think of. Not here on CAF, not in the pro-life movement, and not among conservative Catholics.

 

[Thomas_White]

Name a single pro-life advocate that is not “accepting that the teaching for respect for life at all its stages”. Just one will do.

That would be the case if someone actually held that narrow view. But of course, there aren’t any that do. At least none that I can think of. Not here on CAF, not in the pro-life movement, and not among conservative Catholics.

Well, it happens that I am able to both read and comprehend standard English. Do I need to copy comments from this very thread? I won’t because I don’t wish to personally offend anyone, but they are there to see.

 

[TCEL]

The future Pope Francis would have the enthusiastic support of then-Cardinal Joseph Ratziner and this support continued when Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI.

It’s encouraging to see people drawing some connections between the two! I remember giving one of my friends, a reformed Calvinist, Pope Benedict’s Introduction to Christianity, and asking her to read it and see if he sounded like the belligerent backward curmudgeon he’s constantly portrayed as.

 

[Suudy]

Well, it happens that I am able to both read and comprehend standard English. Do I need to copy comments from this very thread? I won’t because I don’t wish to personally offend anyone, but they are there to see.

Yes, apparently you do. I don’t see anyone that does not accept “the teaching for respect for life at all its stages.”

 

[Thomas_White]

It’s encouraging to see people drawing some connections between the two! I remember giving one of my friends, a reformed Calvinist, Pope Benedict’s Introduction to Christianity, and asking her to read it and see if he sounded like the belligerent backward curmudgeon he’s constantly portrayed as.

Yes, I agree. What Pope Benedict XVI says in the long interview that is the book “God and the World” reveals a far deeper and broader perspective of this theologian that what the media ever seemed to present.

 

[Peebo]

He is the long time anchorman and newsman for EWTN, the world’s largest Catholic broadcaster and one is calling this “rightist politics”. Wow. Everyone should take note of such an observation. So, since Arroyo is a mainstay of EWTN, that must mean they are “rightist politics”. Whom are we to make such judgements?
**
By the way, since I have seen no transcript of what Arroyo said, I’d want to read his exact words instead of just accepting that he said the death penalty was merciful.**

I don’t know if there will be a transcript of what Raymond Arroyo said but I was watching it and he definitely did say the death penalty could be “merciful” I can’t quote him word for word but he intimated that it could cause the condemned to seek forgiveness where as he might not if not facing the death penalty…what I did find odd seeing that the Pope along with the American conference of Bishops oppose the death penalty was that a guest priest (can’t remember his name) was in complete agreement with Arroyo…and to be honest I can’t remember if it was Raymond Arroyo or the priest who first made that statement…maybe someone can find the transcript…but yes both of them did agree on the matter

 

[Thomas_White]

Peebo:
I don’t know if there will be a transcript of what Raymond Arroyo said but I was watching it and he definitely did say the death penalty could be “merciful” I can’t quote him word for word but he intimated that it could cause the condemned to seek forgiveness where as he might not if not facing the death penalty…what I did find odd seeing that the Pope along with the American conference of Bishops oppose the death penalty was that a guest priest (can’t remember his name) was in complete agreement with Arroyo…and to be honest I can’t remember if it was Raymond Arroyo or the priest who first made that statement…maybe someone can find the transcript…but yes both of them did agree on the matter

So, would it then be merciful to abort an unborn child who would likely face a very difficult life of severe disability? Are these decisions for us to make?

 

[Suudy]

So, would it then be merciful to abort an unborn child who would likely face a very difficult life of severe disability? Are these decisions for us to make?

How is even related? What crime did an unborn child commit to warrant his or her deliberate death?

 

[Path_Finder]

I would say a focus on abortion rather than accepting that the teaching of respect for life at all its stages includes a condemnation of abortion. When this narrow view results in criticism of Pope Francis, I would say this is a conservative perspective and that this perspective fails to recognize that the teachings of the Church transcend partisan politics.

True; but at the same time, the Vatican has singled out abortion numerous times as a grave matter rather than just what one Pope has said in one speech. A lot of teaching can be promulgated if we are just using a “Quote-A-Pope” logic but that is not necessarily Catholic teaching.

SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON PROCURED ABORTION

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19741118_declaration-abortion_en.html

 

[Colorad007]

I think ‘conservate’ Catholics will have to come to terms with the fact that their perspective has not actually been that of the Church nor is it its future direction.

The “conservative Catholic” position, whatever that even means, is that the non-negotiable values of family, marriage, and life take the most primary place of importance in Catholic social teaching, and that other matters are not dimished but not equal to these non-negotiables. Things like ecological responsibility are logically subordinate to the protection of human life. Not only is that the consistent teaching of the Church, but it will continue to be.

 

[Thomas_White]

The “conservative Catholic” position, whatever that even means, is that the non-negotiable values of family, marriage, and life take the most primary place of importance in Catholic social teaching, and that other matters are not dimished but not equal to these non-negotiables. Things like ecological responsibility are logically subordinate to the protection of human life. Not only is that the consistent teaching of the Church, but it will continue to be.

Well, I would say ecological responsibility very much concerns the protection of human life considering that when Pope Francis spoke before Congress he said human existence itself is imperiled.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I loved the speech to Congress. Pope Francis talked about so many things. I was impressed that the selling of weapons to other countries came up. Proof that Pope Francis knows where Congressional money comes from.

Please do not dismay that abortion was only mentioned briefly. I think we will hear much more about it this weekend, when he is at the World Meeting for Families. I noticed that the media completely ignored his statement during the speech to Congress about “respecting life at all stages” even though it garnered him applause. I don’t think they will be able to ignore his statements this weekend.

I was also amused that the headline from one major news outlet said that Pope Francis avoided politics at St Patrick’s in NYC. Hehehe! They obviously don’t understand that homilies are about the gospel; not politics.

Of course they will ignore it.

Meeting Congress is an historic, press-worthy event. The World Meeting of Families is irrelevant in the eyes of most of the world. Ask the average person on the street if they even heard of it, or know where it is being held?

We will see if he calls out certain issues by name and loosely addresses others this weekend like he did to Congress. But the world won’t care, and neither will the press corps.